Q&A from “Dating With Disabilities: Dating with (or without) Asperger’s”

Wednesday

Jun152011

Wise Readers,

“Asperger’s? But I don’t have Asperger’s.” That’s what I thought when I picked up Jennifer McIlwee Myer’s book about teaching kids life skills, too: My kids don’t have any ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder)—so why should I read it?

And then I nodded and laughed and learned my way through the whole book. And applied it to my kids. And then recommended it to everyone I know.

Jenn, being a self-avowed Aspie-at-large, writes for her audience, but it turns out that her advice is strongly supported by science and is helpful for *everyone*. How so? What’s different about dating for Aspies versus others? What’s the same? Do men and women with Asperger’s face different dating obstacles?

Read on!

Cheers, Duana

From Duana: —Is The Dating Advice Any Different For Girls And Women With Asperger’s (Rather Than Boys And Men)?—

Jennifer, thank you for a great guest post, and here’s the first question. In this article, you wrote well about Asperger’s and how men can go about approaching a potential date. But I also note you’ve been published in a book Tony Attwood and Temple Grandin also contributed to called Asperger’s and Girls. Given your knowledge base, what dating advice would you give to girls and women with Asperger’s?

Jennifer’s response:

Hey, Duana, nice to see you!

Most of the advice I give to guys with Asperger’s (AS) counts for the gals too, but there *are* a few differences.

One thing that is even more vital for the female Aspie than the male is understanding the importance of not following a member of the attractive sex around like a love-sick puppy. Women with AS will often fall for a guy they know through school, work, or church and then tag along after him as much as possible, showing up at any event where he will be and bending over backwards to give him as much time and support as possible.

If he is involved in a project, she will find a way to get involved to, no matter how badly it eats into time she needs to take care of her own work. If he gets a cold, she will be at his door with chicken soup. She will learn his class schedule and just happen to bump into him as he is leaving and/or arriving at each one .

A nice guy will be perplexed and somewhat annoyed, and may try to let her down easy through broader and broader hints (which she likely won’t get). A non-toxic but clueless guy may welcome the help and attention without noticing he’s effectively leading her on. A “user” will latch onto her as a source of free gifts, labor, and possibly sex.

No matter which way it goes, these “relationships” are a huge time suck that can permanently damage a women’s career at work or school. The tremendous amount of time, energy, and even cash that goes into always being where he is and always being able to help him out is more draining than these gals imagine.

One of the most important lessons a woman with autism or Asperger’s can learn is that if he’s just not into you, he’s just not into you. It’s even better if she finds out that the way to find a special someone is *not* to subsume your personality and energies to one attractive fellow’s life, but rather to get out there and live your own life.

From Jonathan Dobrer: —Dating With Asperger’s; Isn’t Dating *Without* It Kind Of Similar?—

Great article however, I can’t find anything that makes Aspie dating, insecurity, insensitivity, impulse to self-pity different from non-Aspie. When dating, with rare exception, we’re all in eternal junior hi. We read in unsent signals. We misread sent signals. We project, pre-reject, or in other words, show our vulnerable humanity neurotically.

Okay, I’ll give you this distinction. If two Aspies are dating a romantic evening might not be spent trying to gaze raptly into each other’s eyes. Awkward.

I will, however, take a screen shot of article for that happy day when my now 11 year old Aspi grandson starts dating. Ooops. Too late!

Jennifer’s response:

Hey, Jon, good to hear from you!

On the one hand, you are completely correct in that most of the advice and coaching I would give to an Aspie about dating is very close to that I would give to a non-Aspie. All autism spectrum disorders have the effect of creating a really intense, even severe, case of being human.

On the other hand, we on the spectrum need these things spelled out over and over, preferably from a young age.

A typical human might well continue to pursue a desirable person for quite a while after getting turned down three times, but most typicals will eventually get it without heavy intervention.

There’s a lot of evidence (and my own experience) pointing to Aspies just not getting it, even after asking the same person out a dozen times or more. In discussing this with some of the best researchers in the field, the conclusion reached was that sometimes getting rid of an Aspie suitor requires a restraining order.

In my own case, there were two guys who I had to literally scream at to get them to stop asking me out. Repeatedly telling them point-blank that I just wasn’t interested and would like them to stop bugging me did not work. Instead, they were really quite happy that I was talking to them at all, until I really lost it.

Of course, there are other potential issues. Literal Aspie thinking means dating advice can go south fast.

In more than one case, dating instructions specifically designed for Aspies have backfired catastrophically.

Tony Attwood told me about an incident that occurred right here in the good ‘ol USA. It happened after the instructor of a social skills class specifically aimed at people with Aspergers informed the group ( in the context of discussing long-term dating) that if you wanted to touch someone, you had to ask them and be specific and clear about what it was you wanted to do to prevent disastrous miscommunication.

Unfortunately, autism spectrum people do not always understand that context colors instructions. One young man in that class wound up being arrested.

He had written down, “If you want to touch a woman, you have to ask her.” He went to the local mall. He asked every woman he wanted to touch if he could do so, and he was quite specific.

So there are differences and similarities. That particular 19-year-old male was different in the way he parsed the data he was given, but pretty darn similar in his reaction to Saturday at the mall with lots of cute girls shopping.

From Joan: —Love your book! How Is Growing Up With Asperger’s Different From Growing Up In Your Standard Dysfunctional Family?—

Jennifer! So glad to see you on Love Science! I have your book and am presently reading “Chapter 19: Manner, Manners, Manners: Politeness is a Life Skill.” Love it.

Am I on the spectrum? Probably not officially, but I might as well be. Many of us who grew up in households with parents who were alcoholic, narcissistic, or simply unaware ( … or in my case, all of the above) never received the basic building blocks of life skills that we really needed. Your book is a relief to finally have someone spell it out for us in a warm, patient, matter-of-fact tone.

I think your book is fantastic, and that practically everyone can benefit from it, not just those parents whose children have Autism or Asperger’s. It seems to me that *every* human needs information explained in concrete steps.

I know that at age 4 or 5, knowing some basic steps about how to fold laundry —and where it went afterwards —would have helped me a lot more than my mother pointing at a big pile of clean towels, socks, and underwear and screaming, “GO FOLD THOSE CLOTHES!! AND PUT THEM UP! …NOW!!!” Talk about some high expectations.

I’m wondering … Are children with Autism and Asperger’s really all that different from other children? Personally, if I would have loved receiving the training your brilliant mother provided you and your brother in your childhood. I am glad you got this tremendous support!

Thanks again for writing your book; it has filled in many gaps for me. I believe your message of basic life skills has a universal appeal.

Jennifer’s response:

Hey, Joan, I’m glad to see you too! In fact, I’m glad to see almost anyone who writes me free advertising for my book!

Children with autism and Asperger’s can be significantly different than other children. Mind you, pretty much any child would have been, well, screwed, in your own childhood situation, with or without disabilities.

But autism and Asperger’s can present significant learning delays and endless issues that are well outside of normal bounds.

We need an intensified, carefully structured, and mind-bogglingly consistent version of the kind of support, discipline, and training that works well for typical children. We also require incredibly blatant connections drawn between our actions and the consequences thereof.

For example, children with autism and Asperger’s often do not understand that if they yell at, bite, or hit another child, that child will not want to play with him or her later that day. The connection between the two events – the violence and the rejection – is often invisible to us.

We are even worse at comprehending the results of sins of omission. Non-Aspergian women who marry Aspie men often wind up drained and frustrated when they get no compliments, no small gestures of affection, and no courtship after marriage. The Aspie attitude is often quite literally, “I already told her I love her when we got married. If that changes, I’ll let her know.”

There are other issues too: people on the autism spectrum are more likely to experience extreme bullying at school and at work; are more likely to be victims of con artists, violent crimes, and acquaintance rape; and suffer more frequently and more intensely from crippling depression, anxiety, and anger than the general population.

Other autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) often come with the added bonus of extreme difficulty in developing any ability to communicate (verbally or non-verbally). And, of course, all ASDs other than Asperger’s are often paired with low testable IQ.

And there are also things like sensory issues, gut issues, migraines, lack of affect … there are quite a few crippling problems that commonly come along with any ASD, including Asperger’s.

In people with Asperger’s, these issues are usually either invisible or else are attributed to personal faults and/or deliberate malice. So either we’re working like mad to look as if we don’t have a disability (and getting no credit for the work) or we look weird and people blame us for it.

It can get a little stressy. Adding on the fun-fun-fun process of trying to find a mate just tweaks the problems up a notch or two. As they said in Spinal Tap, “This one goes to eleven.”

It’s a miracle that I’ve become the awesome human being you see typing before you. ;-)

Thank you again for your kind compliments.

—Other Reader Ravings About Jennifer—

From Nora Pedersen:

Jenn, I like the way you write. You write naturally and genuinely and it sounds so like you. Your dating advice is right on for Aspie and non-Aspie alike. Adult dating is funny, awkward, stressful, sometimes sad and sometimes awesome. No one knows the rules. I’m forwarding your article to colleagues and surely they will pass it on as well. specifically, I am sending it to a newly divorced non-Aspie immediately. Your dating advice will be enormously helpful. Thank you!

From Sara Gardner:

Hey, Jenn, so happy to “see” you online! Love this article, and all the great advice you always have to share. I can’t wait to pass it along.

From Duana:

Jenn, not only did you become the awesome person typing before us, you did author a supremely awesome book. And your explanation of the distinctions between Aspie - non-Aspie are spot-on. (How many times have I intoned with non-Aspie clients: “Dating isn’t fun. Not if you’re sane. Rejection is part of the deal, but the ultimate results are worth it…”)

You’re the only person I know who can be both accurate and hilarious on the topic. Thank you ever for the enlightened humor, and the humorous enlightenment! And thank you for a great guest post and follow-up.

Cheers,

Duana

Jennifer McIlwee Myers, Aspie At Large, is the author of How to Teach Life Skills to Kids with Autism or Asperger’s. She is also consultant to some of the USA’s largest school districts and speaks nationally on Autism-and-Asperger’s-related topics.

She successfully navigated the dating world and married the love of her life in March of 1994. She wishes to thank the following scientists and sources:

Tony Attwood, Ph.D., founder of the Brisbane Autism Research Centre

Simon Baron Cohen, Ph.D. director of the Cambridge Autism Research Centre

Temple Grandin, Ph.D.

How To Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie

Social Psychology (textbook) by David G. Myers (no relation)

Ms. Myers’ brother Jimmy, without whom she would know nothing about autism and Asperger’s

Related Love Science articles:

Jenn’s article on dating advice with (or without) Asperger’s: http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/dating-with-disabilities-how-to-date-with-or-without-asperge.html

How to tell she’s just not that into you: http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/how-to-tell-shes-just-not-that-into-you-or-captain-clueless.html

Q&A for telling she is/isn’t that into you:http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/qa-for-how-to-tell-shes-just-not-that-into-you-or-captain-cl.html

Geographic nearness as *the* #1 predictor of whom we’ll wed or bed: http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/qa-from-why-better-than-nothings-arent-1.html

Why mooning around over someone who doesn’t know you exist—or who does, but doesn’t really want you—is much worse than having nobody at all: http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/why-better-than-nothings-arent.html