Our column about porn and sexual orientation raised myriad questions:  What if straight women get turned on by porn of women?  Why aren’t more people bi?   Is there a ‘sniff test’ to tell if a guy is gay?  And why do gay men marry straight women, anyway?   

 Read on! 

Cheers, Duana

 —So If I’m A Straight Woman, And I Get Turned On Looking At Other Women, Is That Normal?

              From Just Me: 

I am a straight woman (husband and kids), but I find pictures of beautiful women to be seductive and arousing to me. If sometimes my husband needs a boost, we can look together inside the Playboy magazine and it gets us both in the mood. I am glad this makes me normal because the women in the article look at everyone.

            Duana’s responds:

Hi, Just Me, I don’t think I’ve heard you here before.  Welcome!

Yes, it’s normal for women of all orientations to get physically aroused from looking at gorgeous naked women.  And at gorgeous naked men.   And at women being gorgeous together.  And at men being gorgeous together.  And at men and women being gorgeous together.  And, well, you get the gist. 

(In fact, I think that’s one reason so many Survey respondents thought Janine’s boyfriend is bi.  If 2/3 of the respondents are women, and women are easily turned on by looking at Everyone…then why wouldn’t men, they might reason?)

To wit, here’s what one lesbian woman wrote on the Survey:  “Talk to him and see if he could open up.  Just because it does something for him doesn’t mean he’s gay.  I am 98% lesbian and the idea or images of straight sex often turn me on, and so can gay male porn for that matter.”

—Why Aren’t More People Bi?

            From Curious But Not Bi:

Hi, I haven’t written before but want to now. It seems weird to me that so many people have had sex with someone their same gender, but they don’t say they’re bi. Did I read that right? If I did, then why aren’t more people bi? 

            Duana’s response:

Yours may be the best question of the lot, Curious. 

Indeed, some theorists think bisexuality—not heterosexuality—is the default state of most mammal species.  It is boringly common for males of many species to mount one another, for instance; whales have been observed rubbing their penises together (a text I own shows a rather impressive photo of that); and bonobos—after chimps, our closest genetic relatives—regularly have foreplay and intercourse and, apparently, orgasms, with both genders. 

And not only do about 10% of adolescents have one or more same-gender sexual experiences, but researchers since Alfred Kinsey in the 1940’s have found that 10% of adults do, too. 

Yet various studies have people self-labeling as bi only 1% to 3% of the time. 

So what gives?

My first guess is Stigma. 

A letter I received last week from a bi woman sums up the complexity of this stigma: 

“I’ve quit telling people I’m bi, because nobody has been supportive, no matter their orientation.  People want you to fit a nice little category.  Some don’t even believe bisexuality exists, as if I’m making it up and haven’t admitted I’m a lesbian.  So I live straight and tell people that’s what I am.” 

And here’s another letter I received, also from a bi woman who no longer tells folks she’s bi because of the reaction she’s gotten (she now lives as if she is straight):

“Not all folks are All Gay or Nothing. The degree of sexual attraction is not one or the other for some of us. In my case, I have been attracted to both and I did not fall in love with my husband BECAUSE he has a penis; I fell in love with him AND he has a penis….just an added bennie. In other words, it is HIM and not his anatomy that I love.”

My second guess is that most people lean very far in one direction—with few smack-dab in the Absolutely Bi middle

One of the famed Alfred Kinsey’s most important contributions was the idea that sexuality exists along a continuum.  And indeed, his data showed that sexual expression is not nearly as either-or as people had formerly assumed. 

But.  He also found most people skew towards one gender or the other.  So, even among those with some bi experience, folks tend to have the majority of their experience with one gender only. 

This leaves much room for people to label themselves as straight or gay, and to see their exceptional behavior as…exceptions from their real orientation. 

Love Is The Answer

Finally, for many of us, every fiber of our emotional being is tied up with only one gender.  And as we’ve seen from the article and from one of our commenters here, who writes that “I am sexually attracted to both men and women, but only bond with men. That’s why I consider myself heterosexual”—Whom We *Love* is a huge part of orientation. 

Many are just very clear that we’re only are drawn to love and lust with one gender or the other, and bi-ness truly hasn’t occurred as an option. 

Thanks again for a splendid question. 

—Is There A ‘Sniff Test’ To Tell If Someone’s Gay? 

            From Bobert:

In one of your previous articles you wrote that smell has a big impact on attraction. I really don’t know much about bisexuals, but do they like the smell of both genders? Do straight women who appreciate other women sexually, but only love men prefer the smell of one gender over another? As for Janine, could a smell test help her realize what’s up with her boyfriend?

            Duana’s response:

Brilliant question!  You’re referring to the Q&A from “When Love Stinks” (full Q&A is here).

Unfortunately, it’s looking like your ignorance of bisexuals is widely shared in the scientific community…I am having a tough time finding much on much about bi’s, and I found nothing on scent. 

As for your other query, Yes, Janine could probably use a smell test to tell whether her boyfriend is gay.  Here’s a quick re-print of the relevant part of the Love Stinks post:

“Yolanda Martins and Charles Wysocki did olfaction research with over 80 straight-or-gay participants who smelled armpit sweat of gay and straight strangers (No, they didn’t stroll up and sniff armpits; participants didn’t even know what they were being tested on. They just sniffed pads that had been worn in strangers’ armpits, and then rated how much they liked the smell.). Results?
a) Gay men loved the armpit smells of other gay men more than any other smell;
b) Everyone else put the smell of gay male armpit sweat dead last;
c) Gay men were neutral about straight women’s armpit scents, but actively disliked the sweat smells emanating from samples from lesbians and straight men;
d) Lesbians had the same profile of scent preference as straight men and women did—liking the smell of heterosexuals (male and female) the best.

“Which brings us to yet another question: *Why*? Answers are speculations at this point, so here are the hypotheses:

“First, it appears from many different studies that many women have a more malleable sexual orientation than men do—in other words, a man tends to be either entirely gay or entirely straight in orientation, whereas some women have an element of choice in the matter.

“Second, the odor of a man is determined in part by his testosterone profile—and sexual orientation may flow from that. It behooves women to sniff out those who are Frankly Not Interested In Us, Dahling! And perhaps it’s a boon to men who are gay to sniff out other men who are gay—after centuries of persecution and risks of hatred that can still be appallingly high.”

Thanks for your insight, Bobert.  Come again!

—What About Resources For The Straight Mate?

            From Candi:

I know the boyfriend may be feeling confusion and needs a supportive person to help him with the transition/realization about his sexual orientation, but I bet the girlfriend is feeling devastated and might not be the best person to help him. He hasn’t done anything wrong, perhaps he hasn’t cheated and maybe he is trying to avoid hurting her, but his revelation will probably still hurt. Telling his girlfriend he prefers men over women is probably still going to feel like a rejection to her, even if it isn’t meant personally.

The advice for her to be supportive is ideal. I would congratulate any woman who could be that for her “boyfriend”. But my bet is that she needs help with all this, too. She’s gonna need someone to help her with this new information and I imagine it’s going to be difficult for her to be the cheerleader for him that he needs and wants. Professional counselling might be a good idea for both of them.

           Duana’s response:

Candi, you’re absolutely on-target that the recipient of the “I’m gay” news is often devastated.  The vast majority of mixed-orientation relationships are entered into unwittingly—sometimes by both parties.   And when one partner comes out—or is discovered to be having same-gender affairs—the heterosexual partner suffers a revision of his or her entire history.  They lose not only trust in their mate—but in themselves, in their own ability to judge even the most basic aspects of a partner, and yes, in their appeal as a person sometimes.   The revelation, though it’s little to do with the straight person at all, shakes the very foundation of that individual’s confidence, self-esteem—and valued love relationship. 

So I agree with you that help beyond what’s offered in this column is often needed.  And while counselors can be a good resource, I’d like to direct readers to this one as well: the Straight Spouse Network, founded by Amity Buxton.  Whether people who visit the site choose to interact, or merely to read and feel solidarity with many who stand on ‘the other side of the closet’, it can help. 

The mission statement of the Straight Spouse Network is as follows:

“Who we are:

“Current and former Straight Spouses/Partners of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender people, Mixed Orientation Couples and our Families and Friends.

“What we do

“Serve straight spouses, mixed orientation couples, families and community by:

• “Reaching Out
  to increase visibility of straight spouses and accessibility to support
• “Healing
  and empowering straight spouses to cope constructively
• “Building Bridges
  between spouses, within families and with the larger community through support, education and advocacy”

Here’s the web address:  http://www.straightspouse.org/home.php.  I hope anyone reading this who needs or has needed this resource will give this Network repeated visits. 

—What Causes Sexual Orientation?  Is It Subjective…Or Genetic?

             From Gillian:

Great article, and what a surprise!

Given these facts, I would have said that Janine’s boyfriend is bi (my first choice). Or possibly straight, though extremely sexually curious (my second choice). But not gay.

Regarding gayness, here’s the particular section of the article, which I didn’t understand:

“Sexual identity is 100% subjective and self-defined and psychological—only your boyfriend can tell you with certainty, since only he lives inside his head(s) and is The Authority on his opinion of what’s happening there.”

I’m trying to reconcile this statement with the notion that sexual identity/orientation is genetically determined. In other words, there is a gay gene. It’s either active, or … it’s not.

The boyfriend may be fighting his identity by pretending to be straight (for all of the valid reasons, which you give), but what role do the boyfriend’s genes play in this picture? Is sexual identity “100% subjective” … or is it genetic?

           Duana’s response:

Gillian, hi!  Great question.  If sexual orientation comes down to what we think we are—then what role do genes play? 

These are actually separate questions, because sexual orientation and the origins of sexual orientation are two distinct things. 

Sexual orientation comprises our *feelings*—whom we love and lust.  You can be 100% lesbian and spend your entire life living and behaving straight, all the while knowing yourself  to be inclined towards women; you can be male and in prison and have tons of same-gender sex and return to heterosexuality immediately after imprisonment—and say you were always 100% straight.  And you’d be right.  You are what you say you are.  It’s Subjective.

But that doesn’t tell us where our orientation *comes from*.  Like almost everything else—including whether you’re male or female—sexual orientation comes from a combination of nature and nurture. 

Let’s back up for a minute and consider something that is thought almost purely genetic: Type 1 diabetes.  Although there are genes for it, it appears that something in the environment (a virus, it’s now thought) must turn the genes on—the genes alone can do nothing.  This is why, for instance, there are twins where both carry the T1 genes, yet only one has diabetes. 

Or consider calluses.  Just because you have genes for those, doesn’t mean you have them.  You have to encounter friction on your hands or feet or fingers to develop calluses—the gene and the environment interact. 

Taking this to the matter at hand, there is no one known cause of any particular sexual orientation.  Many lines of research, including genetic research on other species, brain imaging research in our own, and twin concordance rates, to name a few, show that genes are indeed important influences. 

The environment is important, too—just not the environmental influences most people guess at.  Most people think that gayness is caused, for instance, by being reared by gay parents, being ‘recruited’ by someone gay, being molested as a child, or being inappropriately parented by straights.  ALL of these ideas have been thoroughly shattered by science. 

Yet there is *one* environment that does seem extremely important: The pre-birth environment.  The hormones that are released or not released during fetal development, and the antibodies the mother may or may not carry against subsequent male fetuses, seem to be the most vital environments yet found for influencing sexual orientation.  It’s nothing the parents or the child have any choice about—but it is environmental. 

And ultimately, it’s still a mystery. 

—Do Straight People Cause Mixed-Orientation Marriage?  (Why Do Gay Men Marry Straight Women, Anyway?)

         From Joan: 

If I were Janine, I would have a flood of mixed emotions. I’m sure her boyfriend’s emotions are flooding, too.

I have witnessed first-hand the situation of a gay man marrying a straight woman to conform to his parents’ expectation and to avoid anti-gay prejudice. This occurred during the Vietnam War; the guy was young - just finishing college. He married his college sweetheart (a woman) to please his uber-conservative family and to give her a widow’s pension … if he didn’t come back.

He survived the war and came home, but the marriage failed a couple years later when the wife discovered he had a boyfriend. They spent a year in anguish trying to make their marriage work, but the wife ultimately divorced him. I suspect that (perhaps like Janine’s boyfriend), this man didn’t fully realize he was gay until he was already involved with a woman, and didn’t intend to mislead or deceive her.

I guess my point is that that people do go through this, and may not automatically know their orientation in the younger years. I suspect that genetics do play a role, as Gillian suggests, but it’s not as simple as taking a blood test to determine your type ….

I agree that Janine should talk to her boyfriend, but then what? Are there any support groups that could help Janine and her boyfriend deal with what must be a flood of emotions?

            Duana responds:

Dear Joan, the sad story you relate, and your thoughts about it, are on-target.  I’ve already written about the Straight Spouse Network when answering Candi (below), so I’d like to focus here on your insight regarding Why Gay Men Marry Straight Women.

In a nutshell, it appears this occurs for two main reasons:

1. Because Straights Recruit:

Being raised with the presumption that everyone is straight –which is how almost everyone in the world is raised— means that if one is not, as it happens, straight, that could take a while for oneself to figure out. 

The data on gay men indicate that most of them have their first inkling of attraction to another male around age 8, and that they wait until age 18 or 19 before disclosing their orientation to anyone else. 

And many wait until…well, until never. 

2. Because Antigay Prejudice Sucks:

Turns out, many studies concur that the more taboo and stigma and antigay prejudice there is regarding gayness, the more men stay in the closet or live “on the down-low” (the African American term for being publicly straight and heterosexually married while pursuing gay relationships on the side). 

Yeah, yeah, we all know there are hate crimes against gay men.  We know middle- and high-school would be possibly the worst times to even think of coming out.  And most people even know intuitively that there are more hate crimes against gay men than against people of any other orientation. 

But the sheer enormity of the amount of antigay prejudice I read about when researching this article floored me.  To be spat upon, vandalized, threatened, beaten, harassed…even be paid less (yes, it’s been experimentally proven!) because one is gay is, in this writer’s view, heinous.  And in the view of the law, it’s increasingly punishable. 

Ironically, then, it’s most likely a gay man from a really conservative culture will wind up heterosexually married—eventually shattering many lives including, quite possibly, his own—than a gay man from a more open culture. 

Telling people they can’t be gay, in other words, does not eliminate gayness.  It just increases mixed-orientation marriages and the trauma of discovery. 

—Why Is It So Hard To Just Tell The Truth, Already?!

             From Just Me:

PS: Why is cutting Jan’s boyfriend all this slack? He is lying to her. He is hidden his porn habit. He needs to come clean on his porn habit. Say the truth to her that he likes men. At least say the truth that he is confused….He needs to man up to the same standard we all have to. Give honesty in the relationship. If he loves Jan he should talk to her. He might not know he’s gay, but he knows he’s confused. He is oblige to talk with HER, but Janine is having to discover and bring up the talk. Poor Janine.

Hiding important information from your partner is kind. Not in my book.

            From Monica: 

I don’t think “hiding your porn” is necessarily lying. Especially in a situation such as this, it seems like the kind thing to do.

Most of us have, at one time or another, been in a perfectly lovely and appropriate relationship that (nevertheless) wasn’t “who we are”. It can take a lot of time and introspection to eventually figure that out. Were we LYING to our significant other? No way. Were we lying to ourselves? Sure, maybe…but likely not. It takes time to figure out your true self, and I think Janine is fortunate to be in this position while dating instead of having this predicament after potentially getting married.

….Now, if it turns out that he knows that he is gay/bi/confused in a concrete way, then I do lose all sympathy for him. Then I’d say it’s totally NOT fair to Janine because this puts the whole thing more in the perspective of sneaking around. THAT I would NOT abide. My entire commentary is predicated upon the notion that he is in the early stages of “confused”.

                Duana’s response:

 Dear Just Me and Monica,

Ironically, your letters remind me very much of one I wrote in preparation for this column. 

A gay friend objected to Janine’s and my presentation of Boyfriend’s behavior as dishonest, because Boyfriend might be confused; and I wrote back, “Well, then he needs to be honest that he is confused.  But then again, I’ve always had the luxury of knowing I was straight, and the world is made for me and my orientation—so maybe I need to give this some more thought.”

In that spirit, here’s an exercise I did, that you might or might not want to try:

Imagine that you are a member of a group where rampant discrimination and hatred against you is the *norm* rather than the exception. 

Now imagine that you can easily convince others that you aren’t a member of that group.  You can “pass” so well, you can even “pass” to yourself most of the time. 

Would you?

For many, many gay men—especially African Americans and Latinos, whose cultures are empirically *much* less open towards gays than European-ancestry cultures are—the answer is YES. 

Given all the antigay prejudice, it’s not surprising that science shows that most men, if and when they do come out, are very selective about revealing their gay status only to highly trusted friends.  The response these friends offer can color the man’s perception (of himself, of his identity, of the world) for many, many years—so they need to carefully plan to tell those who will be the very most supportive, and it’s important that they don’t guess wrong.  And gay men may then wait many years more, or even a lifetime, to tell family. 

And to risk telling others when they are in the identity confusion stage—well, that can just seem foolhardy.  Again, putting oneself in the boyfriend’s shoes, if he tells Janine he is confused, and she tells others—he’s risked his reputation and risked much hatred for an uncertainty. 

No wonder many would prefer to wait until they’re really, really SURE before they come out even (especially?) to their most cherished Others. 

This is not to say I lack compassion for Janine; far from it.  I would doubtless be heartbroken and angry if I were in her place, even if I did understand the boyfriend’s motives.  I think it’s awful that there is such tremendous pressure on her guy for him to live straight that she’s unwittingly with a gay man (so I presume)—I think it’s horrid that she has to be the one to bring this up—and I think it’s rending that she may be parted from a man she might have wanted to make a life with. 

But she is still dating, and has every chance, we hope, to find someone wholly suited to her.  She will not face huge stigma for so doing.  The world is made for her, and I am glad for her that it is. 

Too bad her boyfriend can’t say the same for his scenario. 

—Do Both People In The Relationship Need To Agree On Orientation?

            From Curtis:

I found the distinction between behavior and desire to be very interesting. That was new information for me. Thank you for assembling it. It does bring up an interesting quandary. Is it possible that to the girlfriend, he is bi, while at the same time he self-identifies as gay? Is it possible/healthy for the relationship to succeed if they identify his orientation differently?

Anyway, fabulous work, as always!

            Duana’s response:

Curtis, most welcome, and thanks for a great question.  It is possible that Janine could think her bf is bi and he could already self-id as gay.  And it definitely happens that there are mixed-orientation relationships where the two people define one person’s sexual orientation differently—hence the 1.7mm to 3.4mm American women who are or have been married to gay men in the USA. 

My best guess is that a healthy relationship can succeed sometimes even if couples have different ideas of one person’s orientation.  I’m basing this guess on Amity Buxton’s research showing that 1/3 of marriages survive a disclosure of mixed orientation; some of the interviews I’ve come across of the straight spouse who stayed in the marriage indicate that they’re still happy with their husband and their marriage, even if they know their mate is gay and has boyfriends on the side.  And sometimes, the gay spouse is happier that way, too. 

Here’s a quote from a gay man who has remained married with his straight wife for 36 years—and has been out to her for 34 of those years (found in the text Human Sexuality In A World Of Diversity, 8^th Ed., p. 311, Rathus et al.; reprinted from a NYT article by Kay Butler, “Many Couples Must Negotiate Terms of ‘Brokeback’ Marriages”):  “What is intimacy?  I am totally committed on all levels to [my wife].  I felt so intimate with her when I was caring for her during her cancer treatments—to me, that’s a stronger expression of love than whether I’m having anonymous sex with a man.”  This couple have a now-adult son, share every aspect of their lives (including sex sometimes)—and acknowledge to one another, though not to their child, that they each have affairs because of the father’s gay orientation. 

I will also add, based on the 2/3 failure rate of these marriages, that they usually don’t work, and the normative outcome is tremendous pain for everyone. 

—Why Did The Survey Takers Think This Guy Was Bi?!?

            From Diverticuli:

As always, you increase the public knowledge every time you post a new article … so thank you for doing such once again. What I found most compelling about the article, and I had to do the math in my head since I was too lazy to get up and get a pencil, so let me know if my math is wrong … I broke down the percentages into n’s and it seems that 4 of the straight survey takers believe that after looking at gay porn, homeboy, I mean “Straight Boyfriend”, stills resides in Camp Breeder. I would be curious to know the demographics of said respondents. In fact, I would wager all were men, and please feel free to just tell me I am 100% wrong, and to a lesser degree I am confident that these men are a bit on the older side of an age/gender frequency chart. And if you had a geographical question on your survey, they would all live on a pretty river in Egypt.

Here’s the part where I piss-off all the survey takers. I have found many inspiring comments throughout your collection of articles, and consider your population of commenters, and I guess by affiliation, readers, to be well educated, with very little prejudice, and overall quite a “thinking” lot. BUT, when 75% choose to press the Staples’ Easy Button and just mail in a safe response of “bi” so they will be at worst half right, it just puts my proverbial knickers in a bunch. Assuming I am correct about your population, you have an excellent opportunity to do some quality research once you force the buggers to make a decision. Said my piece, I’m old, going to bed.

         From Candi:

Diverticuli……I am a woman and I am straight and I live in Nebraska. I don’t live by a river but the creek near my house is quite picturesque if you can live with the mosquitos. I voted that the boyfriend was bisexual. I did this not because it was a safe answer but because the evidence seemed to suggest that he was attracted to both women and men. Afterall, he did choose to have a girlfriend. From what I could tell she didn’t kidnap him and force him into the relationship. Who knows, though? The article doesn’t clarify whether that was the case or not. Duana, did she kidnap him or did he choose to date her? I’m not at all “pissed off”, you’ve given me great fodder for my naturally sarcastic sense of humor.

Diverticuli is plural for “a blind tube leading from a cavity or passage”————The medical definition is not as pleasant sounding.

Thanks!

           Duana’s response:

Dear Diverticuli, what a diverting name you have, lol.  Thanks for a new (albeit curmudgeonly) voice.  I hope you’ll write again. 

Here’s where I agree with you: Love Science readers are an intelligent, thoughtful, unusually articulate lot.  I’m constantly being told by acquaintances that the Love Science comments sections are among the few civilized discourses left in cyberspace, and that the comments often outstrip the articles.   The culture here is exactly what I was hoping for:  learned, curious, open, and kind.  Not necessarily in that order. 

But.  I have to go with Candi re: Why Readers Thought The Boyfriend Was Bi.  As the 80 respondents (whom I thank!) know, there was space to explain their answer regarding their own orientation as well as to explain their guess about the boyfriend’s sexual identity.  Almost every respondent wrote a *lot* about why they picked the boyfriend’s particular orientation—it was hardly a simple choice for them.  For instance, here are just a few of the responses:

—Bi woman: “Impossible question.  Could be any (orientation).  However, my guess is that he is not actively bi and is currently confused.”

—Lesbian woman: “I was with men only for my entire life b/c I was terrified of coming out to my friends and family.  I finally came out [many years later, after the birth of children]….this guy is definitely in the closet, b/c a straight guy, no matter how much of a freak he is, does not want to see two men together sexually.” 

—Straight woman: “The fact that he’s not just astisfying a passing curiosity (he goes to these sites often) means that he’s feeding his sexual appetite in some way.  Perhaps he hasn’t acted out his desires yet, but I think there’s a good chance that he wants to and may do so in the future.”

—Straight man: “At this point we would say he is heterosexual as he has not actually been caught engaging in homosexual behaviour.  He could be referred to as “bi-curious”.  Once he engages in homosexual behavior then he would be classified as bisexual.  When he engages in sexual relationships with men and no longer with women, then he has become a full-fledged homosexual.” 

—Straight woman: “because straight men are usually so keen on ensuring their straightness, any diversion from that incurs a cost that would seem to be only worth risking if he were somewhat interested in the idea.” 

What respondents wrote was revealing in at least two other ways:

First, some mistook the phrase about the boyfriend watching “gay porn and anal sex” to mean he was watching some gay porn and some straight anal sex.  I didn’t make it clear enough that it was *all* gay porn—with a particular interest in gay anal sex.  That might have cleared things up a bunch.

Second, most people in and out of this Survey think others’ *behavior* is how to tell others’ orientation.  Which seems fair enough, given that with other people, their behavior is all we have to go by.  And since this guy is involved with a woman and showing some interest in men, too, readers inferred that he is bi. 

(That all seems logical enough, until we consider that our *own* orientation has a lot more to do with what happens between our ears than between our legs.   To see this, all we have to do is consider how we would feel if forced to live and have sex with the gender to whom we aren’t attracted and/or inclined to fall in love.  Would having sex with a woman make me forget that I genuinely love and want to be with a man?  I feel sure the answer is NO.)

Finally—there weren’t many stereotypical conclusions I could draw from this Survey.  Not all the straight readers who guessed ‘straight’ were male.  And the most fearful comments came from women (ex: “dump him or you’ll get AIDS”)—despite antigay prejudice showing up mostly among men towards gay men in daily life/research.

—I Think My Ex-Husband Is Gay

             From Anonymous: 

After reading this, I am almost certain my first husband was gay. I remember just having a funny feeling about it. Also, one of his friends told me later he was surprised when “Dave” (not his real name) got married because he always figured Dave was “of the persuasion” (gay.) My evidence? It’s thin. Aside from his effiminate nature, I one day discovered porno magazines under the bathroom cabinet. NOT Playboy and stuff I had never seen before. I was too nauseated to look at it, but it was weirdo stuff to me - like orgies - men and women, alone, together, in strange couplings, etc. On top of that, I found a set of photos of Dave and his former girlfriend in which they seemed to be playing dress-up. Dave had his finger nails painted! There were other problems in the marriage. I divorced him, and he never remarried. His Baptist mama would come unhinged if she thought her son was gay. To this day, the family blames me for hurting their son so badly that he could never get over the divorce to remarry. thanks you for letting me say my peace.

              Duana’s response:

Dear Anonymous,

You are welcome. I’m sorry you (and Dave) got hurt like that. It’s a great irony that prejudice—especially within the family of origin— is what creates the impetus for men to hide, sometimes even from themselves, in heterosexual marriages.

Perhaps the people who want everyone to behave as if they’re straight don’t really get it that this means a lot of gay men will be married to straight women— women such as their daughters. Maybe they think gay people can choose their orientation—even though in every class where I’ve collected data, not one straight student has said yes, they could want sex with a member of their own gender if being straight were suddenly deemed Wrong. Whatever the rationale, research is clear that trying to change our orientation Does Not Work, and we Do Not Choose whom we’re drawn to love.

At any rate, I hope you have found happiness now. My best to you.

—Isn’t A Vow A Vow?  (Can’t People Be Faithful Even In Mixed-Orientation Relationships?)

And What About Asexuality? 

            From Anonymous2:

I do have a interesting scenario or viewpoint. What does it matter? One has taken an oath, a vow, a promise, a whatever to stay loyal to a partnership with one other person. Now of course love has much to do with it but what about the cohabitation and the reliable living arrangements and the secure lifestyle awarded to oneself being in a partnership that may be working? Is sex such a barrier or be all end all for the success of a marriage? What if the situation is totally safe with no cheating or no lies or no violence. What if its a curiousity? All men and women attracted to other men and women but does that mean that infidelity is going to happen? I know this is a strange argument but if the guy is homosexual, does that mean he’s going to sleep with a man and be an adulterer? Isn’t the urge for straight men to find another fem just as strong? Yes, I know that the female presence has no bearing on the homosexual male but there is that vow, that promise made to a good friend that he does love. What if the spouse, male or female, has no sexual attraction to anyone? That’s another story…

           From Gabi:

I might be willing to stay married in anonymous2’s scenario. However, I believe that sex is a core human need, and that some form of an open relationship would have to be in effect.

           Duana’s response:

Dear Anonymous2,

The affair rate among straight spouses is between 13-50% of all marriages over a lifetime, depending on how the question is asked and how the term ‘affair’ is defined. So you’re right that straight men (and women) do, of course, sometimes have affairs even though they have presumably married someone they are in love and lust with.

The distinction between that and a mixed-orientation couple, though, is striking. In the mixed-orientation situation, the gay partner is often neither in love nor in lust with their spouse. Yes, they love them—they just may never have been in love with them. We can predict a much-higher-than-normal affair rate when the sexual/love bonding never even happened to start with.

So while some of these spouses probably do just Do Without for their entire lives, I agree with Gabi in thinking that doing without love and lust on a permanent basis is asking quite a bit, and in saying that not only would I not stand for it…but I doubt many others would, either.

I base that statement not only on research, but on the historical record. Throughout the world for much of recorded history, the very wealthy have been placed in marriages which were arranged for the sole purpose of maintaining powerful alliances (well, that and creating heirs who would forward said alliances). These marriages were entered regardless of the individuals’ preferences, including their sexual orientation. And here’s what usually happened:

The guys fooled around. If they were straight, they fooled around with women. If gay, they fooled around with men. King James I (of the King James Bible fame) was so noted for sodomy and male favorites that it’s quite well-known he had one young man he referred to as “my bride”, for instance.

The women, meantime, remained faithful on pain of death. What they did with their ladies-in-waiting or in the harems, however, can only be guessed at :).

Thank you for an interesting question or two!

(Continued)

PS: If the spouse is asexual—having no sexual attraction to anyone, as is true of 1% of the population—then my guess is that the more sexual spouse is either going to look elsewhere for that kind of fulfillment…or the asexual spouse is going to pony up some sex. Marriage has many benefits, as you rightly noted…but sexuality is considered absolutely Core among them to many, and the responses to a lack of a sex-life in the marriage tend to include quite a lot of getting sex Elsewhere.

I admit myself ignorant of the field of asexuality, though, and look forward to any insights anybody here more well-versed at present can offer!

If this article intrigued, surprised or enlightened you, please click “Share Article” below to link it with your favorite social media website. 

All material copyrighted by Duana C. Welch, Ph.D. and Love Science Media, 2010

Do you have a question for Duana?  Contact her at Duana@LoveScienceMedia.com

Dear Janine,

Your boyfriend’s secret gay-porn habit has you wondering: What’s his orientation?  And what should you do? 

The vast majority of our Survey respondents of *every* orientation think your boyfriend is bisexual (See full results below my signature.).   As one straight man said, “….Once he engages in homosexual behavior then he would be classified as bisexual.  When he engages in sexual relationships with men and no longer with women, then he has become a full-fledged homosexual.” 

Yet I’d wager that your boyfriend is gay.  Why? 

1. Most people self-identify as GL (gay or lesbian), not bi—even if they have sex with both genders.

It’s a funny thing about orientation:  When judging others’, we tend to focus on behavior.   But when labeling our *own*, we consider desires—specifically, whom we are inclined to love as well as lust after.   

So when people are asked to self-id in surveys across the American adult populace, 4% say they’re *attracted* at some level to both genders, and 10% have had same-gender sexual *experience*—yet only 1% say they’re bi.   The rest place themselves firmly into hetero (about 94%) - or homosexual (2.8% men and 1.4% women) categories.

And in recent research on heterosexually married men who’ve had sex with other men, only 5% say they’re straight.  But 38% identify as bi; and 57% say they’re gay.  Other studies of men and women concur—most people who’ve had sex with their own gender self-label as GL or straight, but not bi. 

2. Men’s Orientation Tends To Be Either-Or…

…whereas more women can have their cake and, um…

Put another way, studies show there are fewer bi men than bi women, and more men who are very clear on their orientation by their late teens. 

So, many women shift their orientation over time, switch back-and-forth, or find both sexes equally appealing .   Yet terms like “hasbian” and “lesbian until graduation” have no analog among men.  And studies show the more aroused men are by men, the less aroused they are by women. 

3. Men’s Response To Porn Is Telling.

As scientists Simon LeVay and Sharon Valente write, “Most men can figure out their sexual orientation by monitoring their genitalia; few women can do so.” 

Indeed.  In a study where straight and gay men watched steamy videos of women only, men only, or male-female pairs, they knew what turned them on.  Gay men were physically and psychologically aroused only by images of men—straight men, only by images of women.  (Women were physically aroused by Everyone, but only said so about images that fit their stated orientation.) 

And when straight men and women don special eyewear that tracks precisely where they’re looking, straight men primarily gaze at the woman onscreen—whereas straight women watch both genders equally. 

So, Janine, I think your boyfriend watches a lot of gay male porn because it arouses him.  And I think it arouses him because he’s gay.    

But what do you *do* with the information?  

1. Consider *Why* He Hasn’t Told You Yet. 

a) Maybe he’s not gay.

Just because I think your boyfriend is gay, and most Survey respondents think he’s bi, does not make either true. 

Sexual identity is 100% subjective and self-defined and psychological—only your boyfriend can tell you with certainty, since only he lives inside his head(s) and is The Authority on his opinion of what’s happening there. 

b) Then again—even he might not know yet. 

As a gay man wrote me, “…the implication that the guy is lying to his girlfriend about his orientation bothers me.  Chances are he is in some stage of a coming out process.  Thus, he is figuring things out and cannot be presumed to be lying.” 

Excellent point.  The research on coming out shows that you can’t tell someone else you’re gay until you’ve figured that out for yourself.  And because Straights Recruit—usually modeling heterosexual behavior as the only acceptable option—most gay men initially go through a period of identity confusion. 

c) Then again, maybe he fears antigay prejudice.

If so, it’s a rational fear . 

From the 13% of LGB’s who’ve been spat upon, to the 17% who’ve been physically attacked, to the 19% who’ve experienced property vandalization, to the 44% who’ve been threatened with harm, to the 80% who’ve been sexually harassed—*after* the rampant bullying in middle- and high-school and likely homophobia in their own families—it’s no wonder most tend to be extremely selective in revealing their sexual identity. 

In which case, you need to become someone your boyfriend knows he can Trust.  It may hurt to think you’re not already there…but you can head that way now.    

2. Talk To Him!!!

Wise Readers and I may not hold the same opinion of your boyfriend’s orientation, but most of us *do* have the same advice for you: Talk To *Him* rather than to the rest of us. 

Beneath my signature, you’ll see the Wise Reader responses that I think sum up the best advice on how to talk to him with compassion and supportiveness.  I’ll just add this brief script to help you along:

“I need to bring up something that’s been troubling me, and maybe you, too.  I found a lot of gay male porn in the online history.  I am wondering if you’re questioning your orientation, or if you might already know you’re gay or bi.  I am *not* going to condemn you for who you are, and I won’t tell anyone else your orientation.  But I need to know so we can both think more about our relationship.” 

 3. Decide What Kind Of Relationship To Pursue

Dating is the time to go for the relationship you want—not to compromise on Core areas of compatibility.  And the 2-4% of American women who are or have been in ‘mixed orientation’ marriages often feel shattered upon disclosure. 

Yet 1/3 of these marriages survive disclosure; there are many reasons people stay together, and it’s for you to determine what feels right for you.    

Whatever the answers, whatever the outcome:  I join many Wise Readers in hoping you remain friends, and wishing you both well and happy, in whatever relationship is ultimately best for each of you. 

Cheers,

Duana

Survey RESULTS for “Folk Wisdom: Is her Boyfriend Gay, Straight or Bi?”  

 —with sincere thanks to the 80 Wise Readers who contributed their answers and insights

RESPONDENT ORIENTATION:  Out of 80 participants, 80% are straight, 10% bi, and 10% GLT (gay, lesbian, or transsexual)

RESPONDENT AGE:  45 years on average; median 42, mode 41, range 21-65

RESPONDENT GENDER:   31% male (including one transgender female-to-male) and 69% female

RESPONDENT ANSWERS: WHAT IS HER BOYFRIEND’S ORIENTATION LIKELY TO BE?

—75% of all respondents say bi (including 88% of bisexuals, 75% GLT, and 74% straights)

—19% of all respondents say gay (including 13% bisexuals, 25% GLT, and 8% straights)

—6% of all respondents say hetero (*only* straight respondents said this—ZERO GLT and bi’s said this)

The majority of respondents of every orientation said he’s bi; bisexuals were the least likely to say he is gay, and GLT’s were most likely to say he’s gay.  Only straights ever guessed he’s straight—and then, only 8% of them guessed that. 

RESPONDENT ANSWERS:  IF JANINE WERE YOUR FRIEND, WHAT WOULD YOU ADVISE HER TO DO?

—63% of all respondents say to talk with him

—23% of all respondents say to leave him (26% of the straight respondents and 13% of the GLT’s and 0% of bisexual respondents say this) 

—14% of respondents give some other advice, including to just be friends, get tested for STI’s, seek counseling for the boyfriend, or watch porn together to gauge his response

SELECTED RESPONDENTS’ ADVICE TO JANINE:

—Bi woman: “I would help her to understand that, just because he hasn’t told her about this, it doesn’t mean (necessarily) that he’s lying to her.  Often the person doesn’t himself know that he is/may be gay.  They need to talk, and this is easier said than done.  Odds are, he’s struggling with his sexual orientation…I think the success of this interaction is completely dependent on Janine and her ability to compassionately draw the necessary information out of her boyfriend….Drinks are on me if that’s the answer.” 

—Gay man: “Talk to him about it, and be supportive since he’s probably coming out to himself.” 

—Gay man: “Let him know you’re okay with the answer, no matter what it is, and ask him.  He may not be comfortable talking about it and may not even have thought to label his feelings and attractions.  But it’s important that he feels accepted and supported no matter what the truth may be.”

—Lesbian woman: “Janine, just ask him.  You need to be upfront yet supportive.  If he thinks you are repelled by the idea, he won’t be forthcoming with what you want to know.  He’s probably confused and scared and using you as a cover-up.  Just be open-minded and if you care about him, then you’ll understand he’s still the person you loved.”

—Straight woman: “Have an honest discussion with him.  Expect him to deny it at first…but make him know it’s not a shameful thing, that if he has questions about himself then it’s not wrong, and that she’s there to help him figure it out, not to judge him, or be angry at him.  Even if she might be mad, no one has felt ‘encouraged’ to open up to a mad or accusatory person!”

—Gay man: “Work on the friendship aspect of the relationship, so that whatever happens, something good will survive.” 

Related Love Science articles:

 http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/folk-wisdom-is-her-straight-boyfriend-gay.html

 http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/porn-pastime-or-peril.html

 http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/settling-101-traits-for-a-mate.html

 The author wishes to acknowledge the following scientists and sources:

Edward O. Laumann and others of the NHSLS (National Health & Social Life Survey), for data on mixed-orientation couples and sexual orientation percentages

William D. Mosher and others of the NSFG (National Survey Of Family Growth), for data regarding individuals’ sexual orientation versus their sexual attraction/behavior

Jim Malcolm, for research on heterosexually married men who have sex with men

Lisa Diamond, for research on women’s sexual fluidity in orientation

Richard Lippa and Sara Arad, for research on men’s either-or-ness of orientation

Simon LeVay and Sharon M. Valente, for their apt summation from their textbook that, “Most men can figure out their sexual orientation by monitoring their genitalia; few women can do so.” 

Meredith Chivers and others, for research showing gender differences in sexual arousal to sexually explicit images

Amy Lykins and others, for research showing that men and women look at erotic images of men and women for differing amounts of time

Vivienne Cass, for her foundational 6-stage model of sexual identity development, including identity confusion

Janet Shibley Hyde and John D. Delamater, for an eye-opening review of anti-gay prejudice 

Amity Buxton, founder of the Straight Spouse Network, for data showing 1/3 of mixed-orientation couples stay married even after disclosure.  (PS: The Network is a great place for those who are on ‘the other side of the closet’.)

If this article intrigued, surprised, affirmed or enlightened you, please click “Share Article” below to link it with your favorite social media website. 

All material copyrighted by Duana C. Welch, Ph.D. and Love Science Media, 2010

Do you have a question for Duana?  Contact her at Duana@LoveScienceMedia.com

I’m quite the Love Science fan, so I (reluctantly) get it that a lot of guys watch some porn without fatally wounding their relationships.    

But what if a supposedly straight guy watches gay porn?  I discovered that my boyfriend has not only browsed a ton of gay porn on the Internet, he’s also searched on many gay sex topics, focusing mostly on men and anal intercourse.    

This disturbs me greatly, because now I know that I don’t know whether my boyfriend is gay, straight or bi.  I’m fine being his friend regardless, but I am not fine with being lied to about it, and I don’t want to be romantically attached to a gay/bi man without even knowing that’s the deal.   

I asked two acquaintances their opinions, and they gave opposite answers.  The straight woman says he’s definitely gay; the gay guy friend says (and I quote), “All men are horny freaks,” so my boyfriend is just a sexually curious straight guy.   

What do you say?

Janine

Dear Janine,

What I’m getting from your letter is that you can be okay with whatever your boyfriend’s sexual orientation is, but you’re not okay with not knowing, and/or being tacitly lied to about it.  Yes? 

Fair enough.  Definite knowledge of your man’s orientation is required for at least three reasons: 

—So you can make an informed choice about what kind of relationship to pursue;

—so you can eliminate dishonesty that is unacceptable between true Intimates;

—and because by definition, *real* friends and lovers have to know each other at Core; otherwise, they’re just playing empty roles. 

And it doesn’t get much more Core than Who We Want. 

Before I offer the science and my own advice, I’d like to give Love Science’s Wise Readers the opportunity.  Then I’ll come back with their input, science’s, and mine. 

So, Wise Readers, please click this link to give your *anonymous*  (and kind—no gay-bashing) answers to this 5-item questionnaire—and I will be back with you here in a week.  Click here to take survey.

If you’d also like to leave a comment here, please feel free, of course; but for the upcoming article, only the survey responses can be used. 

 Eagerly anticipating your wisdom—

Cheers,

Duana

If this article intrigued, surprised or enlightened you, please click “Share Article” below to link it with your favorite social media website. 

All material copyrighted by Duana C. Welch, Ph.D. and Love Science Media, 2010

Do you have a question for Duana?  Contact her at Duana@LoveScienceMedia.com

Our recent article said men and women can, indeed be Just Friends—but, as Reader comments showed, those Friendships come wrapped in Caution Tape.  Is Friendship just another form of love?  Are Boundaries one-size-fits-all?  Are men construing every smile as a come-on?  And how do people dance around the Caution Tape?    

Wise Readers—what do *you* think? 

Cheers, Duana

—Is Friendship Just Another Form Of Love?—

 From Quinn:

Duana - I love this topic! Its probably the most common scenario I face in the working world. As a man, I meet women often and sometimes the attraction is what captures your attention but most often its the ability to get to know someone personally (their heart and mind) that gives you a sense of comfort and willingness to want more of them. It can get confusing when the opposite sex becomes your confidant. Sadly more of a listener and understanding than you would often get in a relationship. Your options #2 and #4 I would agree with. Knowing up front is important. Managed expectations. But sometimes you don’t see it coming and it clouds things as you didn’t intend to have that “want” that has manifested itself without the physical. Actually a more powerful means to have bonded without any intimacy. Well…not physically anyway. Sometimes the shared mind is as attractive and tempting as anything that could be advertised on the surface!

But if both are mature about it, and the initial association was not false and without agenda in the beginning, the friendship can be salvaged if both are respecting the friendship and expectations. If not, you have to sever ties because it can no longer be geniune when one is in a holding pattern for you while you stay grounded to the friendship.

I’ve been on both sides and its a conveyor belt of helplessness when you get wrapped up without realizing you’re there. To lose the could have been when they are actually the never was due to frienship, puzzling.

A friendship as a foundation…now there’s a concept!

Thanks for another great topic!

Quinn

Duana’s Response:

 Quinn, so good to hear your voice again.  I love your musings on the nature of Friendship becoming Love. 

Friendship is indeed the best route towards establishing lasting love. 

And Friendship is actually a kind of love, as several men readers (but—interestingly—zero women readers) pointed out to me privately.  To wit:

“I think [whether men and women can be Just Friends] depends on the people involved in the friendship.  I’ve seen heterosexual-friends who kissed all the time but were not exclusive.  Seen friends who were comfortable being naked in front of each other but were not having sex.  Seen extremely close friends who were coworkers.  Known “Friends with Benefits” that were good people just a bit alternative.  I personally believe that friendship is love.”

In fact, the most famous model of love is Robert Sternberg’s, which you can see here.  In a nutshell (or, rather, Triangle), it shows three core components of love: Intimacy, Commitment, and Passion.  Combining the three elements forms the most common forms of adult love. 

Friendship all by itself is Intimacy—nothing to be scoffed at, now that a raft of health and psychology studies show that the sharing of one’s emotional self with another can be literally life-saving, and loneliness is a huge detriment to health-and-longevity. 

Commitment all by itself is Empty Love—you know, the people who never speak at dinner, live separate lives under the same roof, and stay married only because they said they would. 

And Passion alone is just Infatuation—ineffable, ephemeral, and impossible to hold onto without an anchor to concrete similarities and commitment between two people. 

Most of us embody only two of the concepts at a time in our adult sexual relationships; Passion + Commitment early-on, and Intimacy + Commitment later on.  Relatively few of us grasp the brass ring: Consummate love, which encompasses all three components.   Why not? 

Perhaps because so many of us launch our intimate relationships with Passion before Intimacy. 

My guess, based on arranged-marriage studies, is that those relationships that *do* wind up with Consummate love often started out with real Friendship that lasted long enough to equate Intimacy + Commitment…(accidentally) adding Passion only after it was crystal-clear that they had enough genuine similarity and liking to make a Life together work. 

 Unfortunately, our dating structure that emphasizes Passion before all else may not help us gain Consummate Love…

And ironically, our work environment, which  throws highly similar, and often highly married, people together is the situation  *most* likely to lead toFriendship and then accidental love you and so many in this Q&A describe.  

 Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, Quinn.

 —What ‘Rules’ Do Couples Set Up To Protect Themselves From Friendships’ Becoming Too Friendly?—

                            From Joan:

Love the article. For one-on-one friendships with men, I choose Option 3, befriending gay men. That was my strategy all through college and early (unmarried) adulthood. No sexual pressure, no weird vibes, just enjoy the friendship. I had women friends, too, but the guy friends were special —they offered another perspective.

Post-marriage, I find that my guy “friends” are actually the husbands of my women friends. At this point in my life (no longer in college, or part of a large workplace), I don’t have any one-on-one friendships with men that exclude my husband.

How about enjoying friendships with men as couples? I can still enjoy the guy’s company, and feel safe, if his wife (and my husband) are sitting right there in the same room :)

                           Duana’s response:

Hi, Joan,  Welcome back!  I’ve missed you here.   

The research that forms the basis for this article focused only on young heterosexual, typically unwed American adults; its purpose was to figure out whether male-female Friendships serve some of the same evolved mating purposes that male-female sexually bonded relationships do. 

The answer?  Yes.  Men, who can breed almost forever but who must find someone fertile with whom to accomplish the feat, are indeed more focused on sexuality in Friendships; and women, who historically need(ed) provision and protection, should emphasize men Friends’ protective plusses.  The theory was largely upheld by the Friends research. 

But it might or might not fully apply to The Married.  And therefore, I refer your questions to other Wise Readers: 

What do you think about having your only straight opposite-sex friends being spouses of a same-sex friend?   

If those are your parameters, could you hang out with your same-sex friend’s spouse when your same-sex friend was not around? 

Or would the relationship be limited only to what was shared in the presence of one another’s mates? 

Would that be too limiting for you, or would that feel comforting and safe?      Or both?

—Can Friendships Survive Becoming Something (Illicitly) More…Then Ending The ‘More’ Part?— 

AND…How Friendly Is *Too* Friendly?—

                                       From Sonja:

Hey Duana - what a great topic and article. I think this is on a lot of people’s minds. I enjoy actually both male and female friendships a lot. Of course, I have more female friends than male ones but that’s alright. I enjoy my male friends though too. If they are truly your friend then they will accept you as you are and honor your status. I know, this sounds too great to be true but I truly believe that a man and a woman can be great pals too. As long as the wife or husband of the other is alright with it, then there should not be a problem. That is just my opinion. I also think that having a friendship with a man could be of benefit because it’s hard enough for us women to understand our men. So, if you can talk to your male friend about a certain situation then you might see it a bit better and clearer and that goes the other way around. too Women give each other comfort but can’t really figure out why their hubbies are acting that way or doing things a certain way. Now, if my friendship with a man is so open that I can talk to him about anything and everything, then I would contact him instead. and hear it from a man’s point of view. Trust and confidentiality is of course a big must in any friendship (and yes in a marriage and relationship too).
Now, regarding that “attraction” thing - yes, it is quite possible that the friendship between a man and a woman might end up between the sheets or even be just cyber sex talk, but if that happens, I think their friendship is scared or even damaged and they might not be able to trust each other any longer and this once so great friendship will fall apart which would be a shame.
Again, this all is only my opinion. I feel like that I am a quite easygoing person and could hang out with anyone as long as there is trust among us. 

                                        Duana’s Response:

Dear Sonja, Welcome to Love Science!  Your opinions do have quite a bit of support.

 For instance, the research participants in Blesky and Buss’ research   –male and female—agreed that having a Friend of the opposite sex was the best resource for understanding the other gender’s mysterious workings. 

And other research covered last week showed that many, many times, people who think (and say) they’re “Just Friends” are in reality moving towards an affair.  It’s the most common way emotional, and, increasingly, sexual affairs begin today. 

And what happens then?  Usually, discovery by the other person’s mate..and, as you surmised, the ending of the Friendship.  Neither relationship—spousal or Friendly—will ever be the same. 

And the Friendship is usually utterly sacrificed, not only because the marital recommitment demands it…but also because the two people in the Friendship have now taken the relationship to a level that they can’t back away from. 

(We now pause while I think on all the letters I’ve received from people who are almost desperate to keep both their Friends and their spouses…It Just Does Not Work.) 

Perhaps these Friendships, once we are married, are best seen as carrying a huge sign:

WARNING: Sharing things with a Friend that you could not say or do directly in front of your spouse is a risk to your marriage and your Friendship both.  

Handle with care.   

                                    From Mocha’s Mom:

… one thing that is very important for women who want to avoid sudden declarations of passion from male friends is that one should NEVER TREAT A GUY AS A CONFIDANT in matters of love and/or sex.

The guy who hears about your relationship woes and frustrations can easily be hearing, “I am so lonely and sad and am just waiting for a wonderful man like you to fix everything.”

One woman of my acquaintance came to me quite bewildered in that no less than three of her single male friends had declared their love for her at an out-of-town event. One of them had even proposed to her, seemingly out of the blue.

Why was she so shocked? Well, she was a married woman with no interest whatsover in any of these males. Even so, the fellow who had proposed had in fact offered to wait as long as it took for her to get out of her marriage!

She couldn’t understand this sudden outpouring of ardor. On a hunch, I asked her (in so many words) if she had been dumping on these guys all about how awful her husband was and how there was nothing in any way fulfilling left in her marriage because of his apathy (poor guy was actually clinically depressed). In other words, I asked if she’d been dumping her misery on her male friends they same way she dumped it on her female friends.

She said that of course she had told her male friends this — what was the point of having friends if you couldn’t “vent” to them?

I explained, carefully, that when a woman says “My husband doesn’t understand me or fulfill me anymore,” what the available and hopeful male hears is “Come and get it!!!!!” I likened her repeated confidences to these fellows to standing on an air strip waving those bright orange lights to indicate where they were to land.

Fortunately, she didn’t seem to notice how unfortunate that last metaphor was.

Okay, so I wasn’t dealing with the sharpest knife in the drawer. She not only was shocked that her constant bemoaning of her lonely and alienating marriage had led to multiple declarations of love, but she was also really open to an affair — that is, she told me she was having one. With a hunky jerk who tossed her aside darn quick when she got serious, but that’s another story.

At any rate, what nearly killed me was when she described how icked out she had been by the marriage proposal — she told me, with particularly off-putting emphasis, “My god, he’s really short and he’s SWARTHY, for heaven’s sake.”

(How I wind up being chosen as a confidant by acquaintences like this one is a subject for another time. Let’s just say I now regard any offer to buy me lunch as suspicious.)

By the way, the guy who proposed was known to me, and he was roughly a 5 or a 6, while she was a 4-5, so it wasn’t outrageous that he thought she might be interested. The only thing I couldn’t figure out is what these guys saw in her. Maybe they were “rescuer” types as well.

In short (too late!), if you are a straight woman and you chose a straight male friend to confide in about the emptiness of your love life; your tragically loveless marriage; or the general lack of men who are kind, decent, and available; chances are he will think you are interested in him and in fact are trying to get him to pursue you.

For my part, I find you can filter out the guys who’ve got the wrong idea by occasionally dropping into conversation little bits of information about how wonderful your husband is. If a fellow asks if you’d like to go somewhere with him, simply respond, “I’ll check and see if my husband wants to go; I’d love it if we can join you.”

—How Do People Handle The Risks Of Friendships?  What Boundaries Are The Best Ones?—

                                   From Penelope:

I miss my guy friends. Don’t get me wrong, we’re all still friends, but I don’t have my “go-to guy” anymore because I am married. My feeling is that, regardless of intention, marital relations ebb and flow and there are emotional openings that invite closeness with the friend. It’s just too risky. 

                                   From Joan:

Hi, Penelope … Well said! I miss my guy friends, too.

Though I do keep in touch with my favorite one on Facebook, a wonderful gay guy in NYC, whom I’ve known since High School. (Long live Facebook!)

As for straight guys … well, now that I am married (with child), straight guy friends are too much of a risk.

Today, I would likely pursue a friendship with a gay guy, but I don’t meet that many gay guys anymore. Whereas the pickings were more plentiful in college and law school, today I’m married and work at home, thus my social circle is limited to: 1) extended family; 2) friends I meet through my daughter’s school; and 3) friends I meet though church. There aren’t that many (openly) gay guys as the local elementary school or local Catholic Church.

I enjoy male company. For me, guys fill a gap that girls cannot. But the solution for me is enjoying male company only when the guy’s wife is also present.

                                   Duana’s Response:

Dear Penelope and Gillian, it sounds as if you’ve both come up with some similar strategies for protecting your marriages.  Although some might consider your boundaries extreme, those “some” are not, to my knowledge, involved in affair research. 

Indeed, Penelope, your words bear repeating:   “My feeling is that, regardless of intention, marital relations ebb and flow and there are emotional openings that invite closeness with the friend. It’s just too risky.”

Science backs you to the hilt.  Every marriage, however perfect, has ups and downs in the emotional connection.  And those down periods (even the up periods, too, actually) are ripe times for an involvement with someone else—especially a Friend, and especially if we just stumble along sharing stuff with our Friends as if sharing stuff bore no particular significance. 

Specifically, as discussed last week, all our relationships consist of windows and walls.  In a healthy marriage, the windows allow mates to communicate with a level of intimacy (emotional—not just sexual) that *only* the two of them share.  Everyone else is kept out by walls. 

As Friendships transition from “just friends” to much more than that, Shirley Glass’ excellent (and heartbreaking) clinical studies show that the involved partner *reverses* gradually shifts the walls and windows.  Eventually, the former Friend is in on emotional details of the involved partner’s life that the spouse is walled off from. 

It’s a tiny little step from that to full-on consummation. 

(Continued…)

So what to do?  Well, you’ve both hit on a solution that works for you:  Maintaining Friendships only in the presence of one’s spouse; having gay Friends; limiting what will and won’t be shared with a Friend.

Although some might find these options a bit constraining, most cultures actually mandate a version of these, *because* they acknowledge affairs as more a function of opportunity than what kind of person we are. 

In this assumption, they’re right; we’re wrong.  The *norm*, not the exception, is that good people do have affairs, without meaning to, just because they aren’t paying attention to the walls and windows in their relationships.

What, then, is the solution for those Readers who find your solution too restrictive—but who want to affair-proof their unions while still having Friends?

One option is simply to acknowledge with one’s mate that Accidental Affairs are rampant—and then to mutually agree on how you two will prevent that. 

For instance, I’ve known couples who agree that they will tell each other everything about their opposite-sex Friendships, and that if they say or do *anything* with that Friend that they could not comfortably say or do in front of their mate, the Friendship is crossing a boundary and needs to be stopped or cooled. 

Others I’ve known have dealt with this by agreeing that if they feel attraction for anyone but their spouse, they will actively avoid spending *any* time alone with that person—no water-cooler meetings, no lunches out, no phone calls, no office chats. 

Still others have a tacit agreement that if their mate is at all uncomfortable with how a Friendship of theirs is going, they will end or cool it—immediately. 

Wise Readers, I’m curious—how do you set *your* boundaries? 

—Does Smiling Really Make Men Think Women Want Them?  How Dumb!—

                                    From Gillian:

Duana, I know you don’t make the rules, but the thing about smiling at men is stupid. Smiling at a man conveys sexual interest? Wow.

What if I smile *and* wave? That means I want to be his love slave forever?

Come on, guys. We are just trying to acknowledge you as people.

This tidbit of information inclines me to ignore men entirely. For example, being a humanitarian at heart, I used to acknowledge strangers on the road of Life. I would smile or wave at the trash guys or postman, simply to acknowledge and thank them for their work in keeping society going.

Maybe that is different, and the smiling depends on the setting? Surely the postman doesn’t think I’m signaling a sexual interest … um, right?

                                        Duana’s Response:

Hi, Gillian,

I find a tremendous amount of what Love Science has taught me to be irritating, frustrating, annoying…but not often stupid (anymore). 

Here’s the repeated finding: Men all over the world do indeed, really and truly, find a woman of open, smiling, wide-eyed, dewey, youthful expression to be not only appealing…

but open to being appealed to. 

As with so many other Inconvenient Truths, maybe it’s not PC, but it’s also not really stupid—not at the level of inherited mating psychology, anyway. 

Genetically, as we’ve seen in many a Love Science column, men benefit from seeing sexual opportunity more often than it’s really there.  Whereas women can only bear one pregnancy per 10 months or so regardless of how many sex partners they have, men can populate their own planet, given enough fertile wombs.  And since consensual sex is (fortunately) the usual kind, men need to be attentive to these cues. 

So it’s doubtful that men consciously think, “She is smiling at me.  Perhaps she thinks I am hot.  And then maybe she will have sex with me and bear my children.”  But unconsciously, men act as if that is indeed what is happening. 

Whatever interpretation you like, it remains a truism.  Cry and you cry alone—but smile and you might get hit on. 

Cheers,

Duana

                                      From Gillian:

Seems to me the “just friends” deal is doomed from the start. It might last for a while, but guys are hardwired for sex, and sooner or later I’m gonna smile :)

                                       Duana’s Response:

Hi, Gillian,

Don’t take this the wrong way, but: 

:)    

My guess is that you’ve gone through your whole life smiling, and usually, it’s worked out well, or at least not badly.  The difference may be that now, you’re more aware of what that smile can signify to an attracted hunka manhood.  

(And to a young single woman, that knowledge may come as a welcome tidbit!) 

As for male-female friendships being doomed:  The world is brim-full of examples of Just Friends who have remained that way.  And also, of those who…haven’t.   

I pause here to consider my own Friendships that have stood the test of decades and geographical separations, without which my life would be much the poorer.  I reflect on times I’ve actively avoided contact with men I really liked because I got The Vibe.  Or men I really, really liked and avoided because I could see I could grow to like them too much.  And I also pause to think of several Friends I’ve known who vacationed as couples…and later divorced their mates and (surprise!) wound up together.  Tell me those aren’t some mighty pissed-off, betrayed-feeling exes! 

Upshot?  I think what research and simple real-life observation shows best is that when it comes to sexual tension, folks are taking a gamble when they choose to interact with someone of the gender they’re attracted/ive to. 

The gambles don’t just come down to affair risks, being come onto if you’re a woman, or rejected if you’re a man (and to see what a screwed-up Just Friends scenario looks like from a man’s viewpoint, I highly recommend the funny and poignant movie 500 Days Of Summer.)    

The gambles also involve what occurs *after* a woman rejects a man…or merely gets a boyfriend or husband. 

Some research indicates men are significantly likelier to ditch a woman Friend if she rejects his advances, and real-life observation suggests to me that even loss of the *perceived (not real) possibility* of sex can drive some men away. 

For instance, the woman who wrote this week’s letter wasn’t just shocked by her “Friend’s” advances—she also got rejected; he ignored her ever after she refused him.  And a client of mine mysteriously lost several male Friends when she announced her engagement.  Apparently, these guys weren’t really being Friends…they were lurking in hopes of sex.  (Note: These men’s apparent agendas don’t match Most.  Most men strongly prefer their Friendship to any sex that could occur.  But finding one who is on the make is a risk.  Losing innocence and getting feelings hurt are other risks.)

And both sexes name other costs of opposite-sex friendships as well—

such as feeling some jealousy of the Friend’s dates;

and wondering if the time they spend with Friends is time they could be using to find a mate. 

Overall, though, Friendships persist across time and many cultures.  Apparently, the risks are seen by many as being worth the rewards. 

 The question is: Is the gamble worth it to you? 

Readers: What do you think???  What do you value about your Friends?  And what risks have you taken?   

                                    From Mocha’s Mom:

As I’ve posted before, my field is Asperger’s Syndrome. From experience, I can tell you that the more socially awkward and/or naive a man is, the less likely he is to use a direct approach and the more (MUCH more) likely he is to hang around and as a “friend” in the hopes that one day his lady-love will suddenly say, “Gosh, I have been blind to the amazing hunk of man-meat that you are! Take me, big boy!”

Or something like that.

Males who are awkward, shy, and socially naive generally attract friendship from women who want to help them get a bit of a boost and to help them gain confidence and social know-how. Such males are also often lonely and isolated, so that kindhearted, highly empathetic social females are loathe to ignore them or send them away when they insist on hanging around.

It’s a fruitful situation for disaster. I cannot tell you how many young aspie males tell me that most women are horrible witches, or heartless, or the like, because their only attempts to get girlfriends involve hanging around, being adopted as a friend out of either genuine liking, pity, or both, and then waiting for months or years to declare themselves at what they think is the “right time” and getting totally shut down.

These are the same guys who never date but believe they are in demand because so many women are totally into them — like their bank clerk, their pharmacist, the lady at the post office, and so forth. They really do think that smiles are a sign of interest. Women who work as secretaries in engineering departments are often besidged.

Interesting, women engineers, programmers, and other geek chicks (like me) are often considered too “guy like” by those same guys. We are guy-like, in that we don’t take on hapless males as projects so that we can fix them and make them less lonely. Having no “pity friendships” equals no strange sudden declarations of passion from longtime friends who have no appeal to us.

—What’s Wrong With Flirting, Anyway?— 

(Or, Picking Boundaries, Part II.  Or, Why Not To Hang Out At Dunkin’ Donuts If You Are Trying To Lose Weight.)

                                  From Penelope:

As I read through these comments it makes me particularly appreciate my husband. Apparently I am a big flirt. I never knew this. Although in my mind I am just being friendly, my husband regularly keels over in laughter and tolerance as I distribute my “niceness” among the gentlemen in town. To him it is amusing (well, only mildly) because he absolutely knows me and my intentions and KNOWS I mean no harm.

I am very grateful that our relationship was based on longstanding and sincere friendship before we ever even considered making a commitment to one another. And it seems to me, that by waiting for an “excellent match” instead of just a “reasonable match” when contemplating marriage, one is better-set to understand his or her spouse’s friendships (or, um, flirtations), and also seems to be generally indicative of a more solid relationship to begin with. The other aspect of this is that, because I have such a good thing going in my marriage, I treasure it and do anything I can to avoid getting into awkward situations. If I have a real attraction to somebody, I will pretty much keep my contact with him to the absolute minimum. I don’t care how interesting/talented/brilliant/hot he is — that just makes it worse! If you’re on a diet you don’t hang out at the Dunkin Donuts, for goodness sake!! I will, in a second, sacrifice a potentially blissful and fulfilling relationship for my marriage. Some people might say, “don’t you have any self-control?” Why, yes I do. That’s why I don’t even go there.

                                        Duana Responds:

Penelope, your entire letter made me smile, perhaps because it seems you and I are cut from the same cloth.  (Also, I love a good love story, and yours is one.)

Your comment about flirting is intriguing.  Shirley Glass, the affairs expert of whom I’ve lately written so much, was married for over 40 years—all her adult life— to her husband…and claimed she didn’t flirt.  Ever. 

Indeed, she tsk-tsk’ed and gave dire warnings about it, saying that flirting conveyed openness to More.  And that it’s therefore Dangerous. 

Doubtless she was right.  Doubtless, that suited her personality, too (she passed away earlier this decade, unfortunately—hence the past tense). 

And doubtless, at some level, while I agree with her—I also disagree.  I don’t think there is a one-size-fits-all for what works or does not work to maintain Boundaries needed to protect a great marriage. 

It seems to me that the important thing is to a) identify your Boundaries (preferably with your mate) and b) abide by them stringently. 

That’s what you’ve done by minimizing contact with those you find attractive.  I, too, refuse to hang out at Dunkin’ Donuts, lol.  In fact, I don’t even tell attractive men that they *are* Dunkin’ Donuts (That’s a no-no.  Apparently, a major part of the downward slide towards an affair is admitting to one’s Friend that you have an attraction towards him/her.).   And I don’t allow myself in-person contact (even with their spouses present!) with those who seem eager to have pastries at *my* establishment, either. 

So here’s to being honest with ourselves about our motivations and attractions; setting Boundaries so as not to rely on our moral character all by itself—and still being whoever it is we are, even if who we are is a bit of a flirt. 

—Men Are Not Interested In Every Woman—Get The Memo, Already!—

                        From Tom:

I don’t desire every woman I see, nor do I desire every woman who smiles at me. Many women can now rest easy. On the other hand, I see a lot of women that I desire. Not all men retain intentional control over their innate drives, but I guess I do.

I am friends with a number of women who are also desirable to me. In fact, many of them would be pretty ticked if I indicated that I was *not* attracted to them.

I was faithful to my spouse for our entire marriage, which ended after 20 years at her request. When I became single again, I realized that being friendly and generous (TM) could be tailored to suit any given involvement with another person. As a result I’ve been physical with people who I also consider true friends. As has already been pointed out, that sometimes does not work for both parties. But sometimes it does.

I value a persons’ humor, intelligence, creativity and integrity. I also value a nice silhouette (preference for females).

I would just hope that men and women would spend less time being fearful of one another in the finite amount of time we have here, together.

                                      From Vincent:

I have women friends, and I appreciate the looks of some, and others, not so much. I know that my commitment and love for my wife mean I would never act on the feelings of attraction. It’s called self-control.

I find it sadly humorous that women feel that if they smile at a man, the man wants to have sex with them. On the other hand, when women lose their looks, they’re upset that men don’t smile at them.

And why is it that when I smile at some women, they turn around and give me a dirty look?

                                       Duana Responds:

Dear Tom and Vincent,

I have wondered where Ye Of Y Chromosomes have been hiding for most of this discussion.  Your perspectives are appreciated—and shared. 

Assuming a man is interested in every woman is akin to assuming that every gay man is on the make regarding every male of every orientation.  It clearly and empirically is Not So. 

Vincent, to clarify, women usually *don’t* assume that their smile drives men wild…they assume that they (women) are merely being friendly, and are usually shocked to read otherwise (as Gillian exemplified). 

But you both make an excellent point that women can get offended if men *don’t* find them attractive…and that some women can assume a friendly man’s smile is a sexual come-on when it’s just a smile.  I have a very low Bitch tolerance, so I cringe when I hear of women being rude for any reason, and especially for no good reason.  But doubtless, it does happen. 

And—well-said, Tom: “I would just hope that men and women would spend less time being fearful of one another in the finite amount of time we have here, together.” 

All this said, one thing that interested me about the many notes sent in to Love Science on this topic was the striking difference in how women and men—of all sexual orientations—framed Friendships with those of the gender they are sexually attracted to.  Men were by far more open to thinking of sexuality as being a part—expressed or not—of many (not all) of their Friendships; women rarely mentioned the possibility, and when they did mention it, did so only by way of saying they wanted to avoid it. 

Personally, I find sexual chemistry, expressed and not, to be a great joy of life.  Like fire, food, water, and Life’s/Nature’s other tools, it’s fabulous when respected for the powerful force it is.  And not only do I fail to be bothered that men sometimes have a spark for some of us (and, Ladies, let us also admit we also carry the Torch at times), but…

I think the world would be a deadly dull place without it.   

So there :). 

                                    From Gillian:

Great posts by Tom and Vincent. I like hearing the male perspective. This time, I’m on your wavelength.

To clarify: My choice of words, “the smiling at men thing is ‘stupid’” was careless and inaccurate. I was trying to say what you guys said, i.e., that men don’t desire every woman who smiles at them. This was not acknowledged until Tom pointed it out.

As for my post that the male/female friendship is “doomed from the start” … I felt misunderstood again! To say the odds are stacked against it would more accurately express my view and personal experience. And from what I’ve read here, other people feel the same way. (No Dunkin’ Donuts.) And there’s alot of other parameters and Caution tape wrapped around it, too (ala Penelope, Duana, and Joan).

As I intended to say in my post, and based on what I’ve read in Duana’s (excellent) articles since this column began, men are hardwired to mate/procreate and women are hardwired to nuture/seek security. Thus, the male/female “friendship” is likely to go that route, absent a conscious exercise of self-control, which trumps the primitive urges. That wasn’t directly discussed in the article, and I’m glad Tom and Vincent brought it up.

I hope you guys continue to write in. I like hearing the male point of view. Even with all the Caution Tape around it, that’s why women do venture into the male/female friendship: Men have so many great qualities of personality and character, and women are always intrigued by the raw and authentic male point of view. And I mean that in a purely platonic, brother/sister, non-sexual way.

That is all.

                                    From Penelope:

Hey, Gillian. I do want to point out that the only reason why I tread lightly with my male relationships these days is because I am married. They used to be my bread-and-butter, and despite the fact that the men will (generally) always be open to sex, I figured that was just an aspect I needed to be aware of and manage as necessary. A very few of my close friends were interested in me sexually. The rest, though they would have happily hopped in the sack had the situation presented itself, were into me for the company I provided. My best friends EVER have been guys, and the only reason I carry my caution tape with me these days is to honor my marriage.

—What Are Men Thinking When Deciding Whether Or Not To Try For More With A Friend?—

                                    From Tom:

Penelope’s latest post sparked this thought. From a male perspective - I think that there’s a calculation that goes on in a man’s mind and it goes something like this:

—Am *I* available (the man)?
— Is she rockin’?
— Is *she* available? In other words, does she have another partner, and how tight are they anyway?
— Is she interested in *me*?
— Could she become interested in me after we’ve interacted in a friendly way for a good long while?
— Do I have anything to lose? In other words, things like Do I respect this woman’s partner, regardless of her interest in me? Or, are we co-workers and I could really really mess up my life if we do this?
— Second iteration of “Is She Rockin’?”

And this all takes place automatically, with frequent data updates. The “Go” or No Go signal is unique to that specific man. Even with the identical conditions, one man will think “Go” where another will think “No Go”.

—On Not Using GLBT Individuals For All Your Friendship Needs—

                                    From Mocha’s Mom:

A female relative of mine used a hint from the original column as her self-defense technique back in the early 60s. She “dated” a gay male athlete at her college, because he needed to be seen dating a girl (and she genuinely liked hanging out with him) while she needed a large male who would glower at any guys who were attemping to bird-dog her. She was (and is) both smoking hot and a lot of fun to hang out with, so it was not only necessary but a win-win that allowed her and her “boyfriend” to both spend their college years happier and less worried about what their male friends thought of them.

However, I do NOT recommend that women cultivate “gays” because they want a coterie like women on TV have. Do not try to cast your own version of “Queer Eye.” But you can get involved with PFLAG because it is the right thing to do, and you’ll wind up knowing wonderful non-straight people of a variety of sorts. Lesbians know how to ditch pesky unwanted males fast (and I have *never* been hit on by a lesbian friend who knew I was in a relationship), gay guys don’t hit on female friends, and everybody benefits by learning a lot more about being human.

Just remember that you never, ever, ever want to criticize a drag queen’s makeup. Even if you honestly think she looks like Clarabelle. Seriously. You have no idea.

—A Summary Wrapped Up In Caution Tape—

                        From Duana:

The first question I ask myself when reading these comments is, “Are they rockin’?” ;)

The answer: Yes. Thanks for the multitudinous perspectives; Tom, for your insights into the Mind Of (non-Aspie) Men; Penelope, for highlighting the value of male friends, caution tape or no; Mocha’s Mom, for writing that tickles the funny bone and the imagination (and which, btway, research and common human decency support. Thanks for underscoring the point about having GLBT Friends because being Friends is Friendly…not just to hide away from the caution tape.) 

While we’re in a conspiriatorial mood around the Love Science forum, allow me to share this scenario from my grad school days. I had many a male Friend—like you, Penelope, boys and later men had made up the majority of the great Friends of my life. So much so that it was (incorrectly) assumed that my best Friend throughout grad school and I were dating.

(I really wanted to be Interested in him…he was Perfect. Alas…he smelled wrong—  as we LS readers now know, the genetic match was no match. But, not then knowing the research, I assumed there was just something wrong with me, moved on with my life and kept the Friendship, which remains among the most important of my life to this day.)

Anyway, one of my married women friends would only invite me to hang out if her husband was absent. It didn’t stop her and me from spending time together—he traveled often. Still, I briefly considered being offended; did she not trust me around her man? Did I appear to be on the prowl? Well…nobody else excluded me from hanging around their mates. What gave?

What I didn’t know then, which research could have helped me with had I understood, was this: The more one’s work takes one away from home, the more likely it is that one is having sexual flings; and jealousy is often a sign that one’s mate is messing around, or at least considering it. My girlfriend’s husband was not trustworthy, and it was likely that to which she was responding. And here’s how I found that out.

One day, at a group gathering where my friend and her spouse were present, he sat in between us. Several minutes in, he placed his hand directly on my thigh, under the table. I brushed it away. He did it again. I hit him—hard. He did it again. I leaned over to his wife, smiled, and said—in front of him: “Please convince your husband to keep his hands to himself. I can’t seem to.”

He kept his hands to himself after that. And she and I remained friends. And I didn’t wonder about why she kept me away from him anymore. (Indeed, I was grateful.)

Some men are on the make for sex and nothing more. Most aren’t. Some women are using men for resources and nothing more. Most aren’t. It feels awful when we’re on the receiving end of being used…but thankfully, this entire thread and all the research show that it *is* exceptional.

Real Friendship—caution tape and all—is the rule.

Cheers,

Duana

If this article intrigued, surprised or enlightened you, please click “Share Article” below to link it with your favorite social media website. 

All material copyrighted by Duana C. Welch, Ph.D. and Love Science Media, 2010

Do you have a question for Duana?  Contact her at Duana@LoveScienceMedia.com

A guy friend of mine made a very hard pass at me.  I’m stunned…I thought we were friends and nothing more.  Was I asleep during the men-are-always-interested lecture?  How do I make a male friend who understands that friendship is *all* I’m after?    

Anika

 Dear Anika,

Can men and women ever really be Just Friends—without sexual tension? 

When Love Science readers answered informally, most women said Yes; one even has a BFF from high school who, with his wife, vacations with her and her husband. 

But the #1 answer men gave referenced this famous scene from When Harry Met Sally—where Harry insists that even with unattractive women Friends, “You pretty much wanna nail them, too.” 

Who’s right—if anyone?  Did we *all* miss the opposite sex’s lecture? 

In a set of studies where young heterosexual adults were asked about their actual behavior with—and what they value about—their opposite-sex Friends, these three conclusions stood out:

•           Men and women primarily want the same thing from their Friends:  Friendship.

For instance, one man wrote me that, “Sure, I’d have sex with my [women friends] if they offered.  But asking isn’t worth the risk.  I can always find someone to have sex with….Good friends aren’t so easy to find.” 

•          Not all men want sex to be part of their Friendships.  But men are muuuch likelier to envision the potential—and twice as likely to act on it. 

Indeed, research shows that over half of men desire sexual involvement with their women Friends—whereas very few women feel likewise.  And about 1/5^th of men say they’ve actually had sex with close Friends—double the percentage of women who claim the same. 

•           When someone in the Friendship wants *love*…again, it’s probably the man.

It may seem against common stereotypes, but here it is:  Men often name the potential for a long-term romantic relationship as a plus of having female Friends. 

Perhaps due to the oft-unrequited nature of these feelings, men then have other uncomfortable emotions—such as confusion about whether the relationship really is Just Friendship or something more, and sadness if their love is not returned. 

Meanwhile, women enjoy a relationship that is remarkably free from complexity—for them.  They say they love the Friendship in part *because* of the lack of sexual or romantic pressure/possibility—and find their happiness marred only when they perceive an attraction they can’t or don’t return.  

So, if you want a Friend who’s on the same page regarding the Just-Friends deal, what are your options?    

Option 1. End your Friendships: 

Actually, that’s a really dumb idea. 

For one thing, most of us, regardless of gender, genuinely like our Friends.  For every man who *is* on the make, it appears there’s another who *isn’t*.  And most men value their opposite-sex Friendship much more than its potential for sex. 

For another, Friendships give everyone a shot at emotional Intimacy—plus, according to the research participants:      

— someone to respect;

— someone to speak openly with;

— someone to go get dinner with;

— a self-esteem lift;

—good feelings when we help a Friend;

—and—uniquely—insider-info about the opposite sex—advice research participants say they *don’t* think a same-sex peer could give as expertly. 

Option 2.  Announce your unavailability up-front:  

Although I’ve heard this suggestion before, I think it’s bad advice. 

Stating point-blank that you’re Not An Option when you barely know someone (or even when you do, but they’ve never made a pass) communicates a lot more than your unavailability. 

It can also convey your status as a snob, egotist, and/or weirdo.  And it can hurt and anger someone who really wasn’t Interested anyway. 

Option 3. Cultivate Friendships with gay men: 

It may not be PC, but this is probably a pretty smart idea, and one that Love Science readers introduced:   

From a straight woman:

“I like having men as friends, but I prefer gay men because [we can relate] without being an affair risk…” 

From a lesbian woman: 

“I don’t have any straight male (good) friends right now. I often get the kinda sexual/creepy vibe pretty quick.”

Bonus:  Befriending a gay man means never having to explain to him, to your (rational) sig other, or to anyone else that really, you *are* Just Friends.   

Option 4: Go forward with your Friendships, knowing there’s a strong possibility that some times, with some men, you conceptualize things a bit differently.

I see this as your best bet.  It keeps the Friends you have, removes shock that a man could turn out to be pursuing you, and avoids selecting Friendships based solely on demographics. 

Specifically, assume your normal friendly behavior is often perceived as sexual interest.  And accept that.   

Around the world, men see mere friendliness as a sign of sexual interest (whereas women perceive it as mere friendliness).  And the #1 thing a woman can do to advertise availability is simply to smile. 

So unless you’re willing to avoid straight men, frown constantly and dress like a nun, a certain amount of unwanted interest may be part of the deal. 

What *isn’t* part of the deal is the on-going expression of that interest.  If a kindly-put “I treasure your friendship, but I don’t want any level of romance or sex in this friendship” doesn’t bar future advances and keep a buddy just that—

It’s time to make some new Friends. 

Cheers,

Duana

Related Love Science articles:

http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/winning-him-backwith-jealousy.html

 http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/sex-the-happily-single-girl.html

The author wishes to acknowledge the following scientists and sources:

—April Bleske-Rechek and David M. Buss, for their research into what opposite-friendship really means to men versus women—and how it fits into evolutionary psychology. 

You can read their articles here:

Bleske, A. L., & Buss, D. M. (2000).  Can men and women be just friends?  Personal Relationships, 7, 131-151.   

Bleske, A. L., & Buss, D. M. (2001). Opposite sex friendship: Sex differences and similarities in initiation, selection, and dissolution.  Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 27, 1310-1323.

If this article intrigued, surprised or enlightened you, please write a comment and/or click “Share Article” below to link it with your favorite social media website.

All material copyrighted by Duana C. Welch, Ph.D. and Love Science Media, 2010

Do you have a question for Duana?  Contact her at Duana@LoveScienceMedia.com

 Our recent affair forgiveness article brought up questions:  Why is affair betrayal less acceptable to most of us than other betrayals?  Don’t cheaters cheat again?   What happens when parents tell kids about their affair(s)?  And why doesn’t forgiving mean forgetting?

Read on! 

Cheers, Duana

—What’s The Big Deal, Anyway?  Why Affair Betrayal Is *Different* 

(And Open Marriage Rarely Works)

 From Cynthia:

I feel like the odd gal out. I have never been able to stay mad about anything for more than about 3 minutes.
I can honestly say I would be more upset if my spouse took a lover on holiday then if he just satisfied an itch. I don’t get the big deal about affairs? Is it the betrayal or the affair we are talking about forgiving? It seems that more people are upset about being betrayed but if the spouse said, ” Hey honey I need more than you can give me I want a hooker or relationship on the side” how many people would say okay? I have never really understood why people expect one person to provide or meet all their needs.

Why does an affair have to endanger a marriage? It seems that some women have no problem with their man cheating as long as they continue to provide for them. I have found it strange that over the years I know of more women who have affairs than men?

                        Duana’s Response:

Dear Cynthia,

Thank you for contributing your voice here at Love Science.  You are the odd girl out, indeed, to be able to forgive so quickly (whether you’re odd-girl-out to know more unfaithful women than men, I can’t say—that could just depend on whom you know, and whether they will really Tell All). 

It’s enviable, really.  Most of us are pretty good at remaining angry about stuff our parents did decades ago, nevermind forgiving in a matter of moments. 

But you’re All Woman when it comes to being more upset about an ongoing emotional affair than a fling.  Not that women think our mate’s casual sex is neat, mind you—we’re just more threatened (in experiments and self-reports around the globe) by affairs that include emotions. 

It’s Evolutionary, My Dear Cynthia, dealing as it does with ancient survival needs our maternal ancestors battled.  Where men love, they invest all their resources—and in the ancient past, a man who left to invest all his resources in another spouse was a man who left behind a mate and children who could very well die. 

Meantime, men—who could hunt down a wildebeest just fine, thank you, but could also be bred out of future genetic existence by a philandering wife—continue to be far more enraged by sexual cheating in a spouse. 

And you can read more about it at this Love Science Q&A.   

As far as expecting one person to meet all one’s needs—you’re right, it’s impossible.  I, for instance, need to play Bananagrams, take daily hikes, eat lots of dark chocolate, read several books at once, and spend hours on the phone with girlfriends.  To expect my man to join me in all this would be plain-out ludicrous.  And he, for his part, does not hold it against me that I don’t spend each Sunday volunteering at the zoo with him, nor that I won’t dig holes in the dirt with him, nor that I can spend large amounts of time relaxing, and he…can’t.   

But whereas one’s need to play outstanding tennis can be matched (haha, a pun) elsewhere without ill consequence, meeting sexual and intimacy needs outside the marriage is a huge threat, and is *not* like other betrayals.   Most people, most of the time, are just not very good at sharing when it comes to sharing their mate’s body and emotions.  Why? 

For one thing, in the rosy glow of affairs (especially the on-going, lovey-dovey type), people seldom use condoms.  Or any protection.  Few of us, male or female, relish the option to unwittingly contract a sexual disease or pay for/raise the child-of-Spousie’s-lover. 

For another, the ideal in unions around the world continues to be Fidelity; even in polygamous societies, women try to be the wife who is married for love, women get hurt if their mate loves another, and men are sometimes even murderous if their wife has sex with anyone else. 

Yes, that ideal is often breached—about 50% of marriages sustain at least one emotional and/or sexual affair, globally, according to several reviews of research.  But it’s an ideal that runs so deep that it is in the marriage contract.  “Forsaking all others” is, for instance, part of many Christian wedding ceremonies; “sharing all my hobbies” is nowhere found in vows. 

Finally, your musing about open affairs, ala “You don’t meet all my needs, so what if I just hire a hooker?” is a question that couples have always wrestled with.  Today, variations on open affairs that range from just-sex to love affairs include polyamory, swinging, and open marriage.   

But the research is consistent on what happens next: A few of these marriages last—but most recommit to monogamy or else end in divorce.   

 —Don’t Cheaters Just Cheat Again?!  And How Can You Tell?

 From Z:

But isn’t a cheater likely to cheat again? What is the point in forgiving a cheater? How could you ever trust that person again? And what is a relationship without trust? Move on and find someone who treats you like you deserve to be treated!

Duana’s response:

Dear Z,   

When I first announced my intention to answer Katherine’s letter, some Facebook followers indicated that any article on forgiveness and affairs would be rather short.  As in, non-existent. 

And the Law Of Psychology states that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior in a similar situation.

Which means the answer to your question about whether a cheater will just cheat again is: Yes.  Right?

Like you, I would have thought so.  But it turns out that the answer depends on the kind of cheater we’re talking about. 

In the Yes, They’ll Likely Do It Again category

 The best predictor of male cheating—although many men never succumb— is simple opportunity .  In the presence of the Aggressively Willing, male Genes just don’t wanna say no to a shot at immortality.  Most men will *never* know what that feels like—and many will only be pursued once in a lifetime.  But rich, powerful, athletic, and/or famous men are often literally surrounded by such temptation nearly every waking hour.  And for some of them, it eventually goes to their heads (and other parts). 

And that’s how Tiger became a Cheetah, and Letterman endured more than a few not-so-funny moments.

Second, a relative few cheaters are willful philanderers (most often men) and/or narcissists (equivalent numbers of men and women) who require no prompting to nurse their sense of entitlement, often expressed as “What I’m doing isn’t hurting anyone else, and I deserve this.” 

Still others are folks with such an insecure attachment style, they feel they must have a ‘back-up’ in case their current mate ditches—ironically, making it more likely that their current mate *will* ditch. 

Yet others are people who cheat very early in the marriage , demonstrating low commitment even during the honeymoon. 

Once these types have been caught cheating, you can usually trust them—to cheat again.

In which case, you’re right: Unless you’re okay with your mate’s infidelity, if possible, “Move on and find someone who treats you like you deserve to be treated!” 

In the No, They Probably Won’t Do It Again category:

 *Most* people who have affairs say it “just happened”, and they aren’t lying—exactly. 

Copious research now shows that accidental cheating is the norm today , where mere friends become affair partners, through no plan or intent to harm.  As the spouse gets to know someone (typically a colleague at work, ala Henry and Anne) a bit too well emotionally, they gradually cease open communication with their mate.  And emotional and usually sexual cheating ensue.   

As Shirley Glass famously described it, these are the people who –without forethought or malice of any kind— reversed the walls and windows of their lives so that the windows that used to encourage open communication between spouses have now become brick walls; and the walls that used to keep “just friends” at arm’s length become windows so large, they may as well be sliding-glass doors.

(That’s why I posted two of Glass’ quizzes at a former Love Science—to help readers see if their relationship is in danger of experiencing a reversal of these walls and windows—and hence, affairs.) 

The trick is finding out which kind of mate one has.  To figure *that* out, Glass advises betrayed spouses to ask themselves:

—Is your partner’s infidelity “part of a larger picture of cheating and lying”? 

—“Is your partner understanding about your pain?”

—Does your mate willingly reduce your anxiety by accountability? 

If the errant spouse is a Liar In General, a past cheater, callous towards the betrayed spouse’s pain, or unwilling to be an Open Book going forward—telling you Where, When, How, With Whom, showing emails, etc.—then forgiveness is still necessary. 

But staying is just foolhardy. 

Or, as I like to quip, To err is human; to forgive is divine.  But to be a doormat is optional.  And it’s not an option I recommend. 

Thanks, Z, for a set of great questions.  Hope to see you back here again.

—Why *Not* To Tell Your Kids About Your Affair:

 From Brenda

It is hard enough to forgive an admitted affair, so I can see how it would be even more difficult to forgive one that wasn’t admitted to. One thing that is often overlooked is the impact an affair has on children. Having to forgive your cheating parent is beyond difficult and affects your future relationships. Been there, done that!

Duana’s Response:

Hi, Brenda, good to hear your voice added to Love Science.  Researching this article taught me a number of surprising things, two of which your experience reflects.

First, like most people, I had always thought a person really should not admit to an affair—or that if they did confess, then for their future marital stability, they ought to keep the details to themselves.  I believed, as Henry probably still does, that being a good, faithful spouse going *forward* was enough. 

But I was wrong, and you’re right.  Being a good mate going forward is not enough.  Cleaning up the past by willingly revealing the details the betrayed spouse asks for is needed if trust is really going to be repaired.  And as research shows, the betrayer needs to be genuinely sorry—*and express that regret to their mate*. 

Second, it’s awful that you knew of your parents’ breach of fidelity.  That does wreak havoc with parent-child relationships, and science indicates that this is one case where cheaters really *should* keep it to themselves. 

If at all possible, minor children, especially, should be protected from knowing about parental affairs, for these reasons:

—When kids know about a parents’ affair(s), that knowledge drives a wedge between them that may or may not be removed with time. 

—When the betrayed parent tells kids about the affair, now the kids have *two* people to forgive: the cheater, and the parent who told them.  It’s a huge psychological burden, and additionally, the kids cannot do anything about it but be caught in the middle.   

Upshot?  Kids who feel caught between warring parents (for any offense or reason) do worse in school, have more behavior problems, function more poorly psychologically, and in every way a parent wishes to avoid—just plain do worse than kids who are rightfully enjoying a parent-war-free childhood. 

Finally:

—When kids know about a parent’s affair(s), it has the perverse consequence of often—though not always—shifting the risk upwards that the kids will later have affairs themselves , and it messes with their sense that a mate can be trusted.  Marriages are never the same after an affair as before, and the gut-wrench of an affair and its aftermath is something few of us would wish on our kids. 

—Why Forgiveness Is Mandatory—

Reconciliation, Optional—

Trusting, Gradual—

 and Forgetting, Just Plain Stupid:

From Patti:

I have gone through the same thing but had a hell of a time getting past it. I was so angry and even wanted to hurt him the way he hurt me. I learned from a wise woman that it takes a year to adapt to something bad that has been done. It has been a little over a year and I am over it. It easy to test yourself, just replay in your mind what was done to you and how you felt at the time it was done and when you feel peace and not angry anymore, you have forgiven! We are not together anymore but I don’t hate him like I did at one time and we get along for the sakes of our child. It will def get better. = )

Duana’s Response:

Dear Patti, sounds like you’ve found wisdom along with peace, and I congratulate you.  Your self-test is brilliant.  And your life’s example makes the Ultimate Point that whether or not one stays with the errant spouse –as you did not—it makes all the sense in the world to *forgive* that person…for oneself and one’s children (who need you to get along and be emotionally present, whether or not you remain with their other parent—something unforgiveness prevents). 

So kudos to you for achieving what many writers privately told me they thought impossible…but which the data and your story show to actually be the rule rather than the exception. 

And thank you for letting me address Z’s question about why it’s worthwhile to forgive (but not remain with!) someone who will only cheat again:

The point of forgiving anyone—cheater or not—is that peace and serenity are literally impossible for ourselves if we won’t. 

In his book Authentic Happiness , top positive psychology theorist and scientist Marty Seligman compellingly makes the point.  Many of us think forgiveness is something we do for the *other* person, and that since the other person doesn’t deserve forgiveness, we oughtn’t give it. 

In Seligman’s words, ““Here are some of the usual reasons for holding on to unforgiveness: Forgiving is unjust….Forgiving may be loving toward the perpetrator, but it shows a want of love toward the victim….Forgiving blocks revenge, and revenge is right and natural.” 

But feeling chronic bitterness, obsession, pain, avoidance, and vengeance (the hallmarks of unforgiveness) is plain-out Bad For *YOU* and your kids and anyone else who must deal with you. 

A raft of studies compellingly shows that the process of forgiving makes the forgiver happier, healthier, and better-off in almost every way (exception: I don’t think it’s been examined economically.).  These studies aren’t merely correlational, but experimental, meaning there is Cause.  Forgiveness Causes Good Stuff.  For You. 

So the reason to forgive even the worst, least-apologetic, heinous individual is that forgiveness is the only way out of the tyranny of others’ actions, the one road back towards happiness, and the sure path from victim to victor. 

Ironically, then, forgiveness is the ultimate selfish act.   But it’s one selfish act that truly makes your entire world a better place. 

 From Mocha’s Mom:

While some may be skeptical, I can say from my personal experience that forgiving people is empowering and amazingly helpful.

My field is Asperger’s Syndrome, and there are a LOT of adults with AS who carry a lot of anger at the people who bullied them in school, the teachers who punished them for behaviors they could not control, and parents who wanted them to be people they simply never could be. I can guarantee that growing up with AS is a great way to truly have people you trust and/or dearly love do things that seem unforgivable to you.

I found the path to forgiveness through REBT (a kind of cognitive-behavioral therapy). That’s how I came to understand that it is illogical and self-destructive to carry around rage or hate based on people acting out of ignorance, out of ineptitude, and/or out of their own “neuroses.” People do stupid things, people lack the ability to make good decisions, and people have their own mental issues that often neither I nor they can control.

Besides, the alternative to forgiveness is to spend one’s life with a bad digestion, tension headaches, late nights spent awake plotting revenge or raging at the unfairness of it all, and generally going around distracted, unable to enjoy either work or play fully, and significantly less healthy than one could be!

For my own health, I learned forgiveness. Does that mean I let the same people run roughshod over me? Of course not. It means I left the unhealthy rage behind and replaced it with feelings like a healthy frustration with others’ behavior, with regret (not guilt!) over having been unable to educate them or help them to do better, and with a determination to use what I had learned to help other people.

Is infidelity different? Well, it does involve someone you probably live with and need to forge some form of partnership with (if there are children involved, you still need to partner up for their upbringing to be sane). If you don’t forgive, then those hateful and rage-filled emotions will hurt you deeply every day every time you have contact or a reminder of your formerly cheating spouse. Just looking at little Junior from the right angle can remind you of how much he resembles your spouse, and then you can start worrying about Junior being a no-good cheater as well!

In fact, it is possible for a spouse to really make him/herself so miserable, hostile, and shrewish that the spouse will start thinking s/he was smart to cheat! S/he may even forget that the wounded spouse was nicer before the cheating and just remember how nice that other person was in comparison with the wronged spouse’s meanness.

There are some issues that require serious thought: if someone is a serial cheater, you do have to make a decision about whether you can continue to live with him or her, but rage won’t help you make a better decision.

If the LW’s husband doesn’t understand that “almost but not quite cheating” is really cheating, or if (like a lot of men) he doesn’t understand that an emotional affair IS an affair, then yes, it’s harder and more complicated and that sucks.

You can decide to forgive without forgetting, and you can continue to modify your own behavior in light of the cheating (for example, in the case of a serial cheater, you might insist on safer sex practices). But never forgiving someone because “he doesn’t deserve it” is a great way to punish yourself daily, even hourly, for someone else’s bad behavior.

It’s going to hurt the letter writer whether she forgives or not. It will hurt much more if she doesn’t. I say, she should do what is least painful — forgive him — and then she will be able to base her actions around what is healthy and works for her, her child(ren) and her husband.

Or she could just rage forever and make the whole family miserable while developing a drinking problem and a deep hatred of humanity. That’s a popular option too. But from what she wrote, she seems a lot smarter than that!

For those who feel the evil husband doesn’t deserve forgiveness, remember how Carrie Fisher put it: “Resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.”

Duana’s Response:

Dear Mocha’s Mom,

Welcome back, and thank you for your insightful contribution about why forgiveness is something we really do for ourselves.  I also appreciate your insights about the distinction between Forgiveness and Reconciliation.  A major deterrent to forgiveness of *anything* —being badly parented, being lied to by a friend, being used by colleagues, and yes, being cheated on by a spouse—is thinking we have to go right on having the same exact relationship as before.  No.  We have to forgive, for our own well-being.  But we do *not* have to Stay. 

That said, it turns out that every permutation of the Forgiveness-Reconciliation scenario can and does happen. 

Many couples stay together without forgiving (see under “Inadvisable” and “Hell” in dictionary). 

And many leave but forgive from a distance—which is the sane choice if the offender goes right on offending and you understandably desire peace in your heart *along with* safety from further betrayal. 

And best-case, of course, many stay together *and* forgive.

In fact, the best-case actually *is* the most common outcome in every study I found.  Which was perhaps the most surprising, and oddly heartening, part of writing this article. 

In other news:  The book I most want to marry (or at least run away with) right now is Committed by Liz Gilbert.  Although she’s a novelist, and the book is a personal exploration of her own hesitation to legally wed, it’s got a lot of research in it (she does a great job of explaining Shirley Glass and John Gottman, hence my falling in love with Liz.  In light of that, we will overlook her incorrect interpretation of the Do-Men-Or-Women-Benefit-More-From-Marriage question.). 

You may be wondering what my point is.  Fair enough:  Asperger’s is bound to give rise to a need to forgive the many blundering insensitives of the world.  But *all* long-term relationships give us abundant opportunities to forgive, and to need to be forgiven.  As Gilbert writes, “In the end, it seems to me that forgiveness may be the only realistic antidote we are offered in love, to combat the inescapable disappointments of intimacy.”

Or we could just stick with Carrie Fisher, lol. 

From Mark Morrow:

My experience is that I forgive a lot easier than the trust returns. Acknowledgement of any misdoing makes you feel like your partner respects you and can be honest about their mistakes. You can forgive someone and not let them back in your life or just be friends. If they can’t be honest about a problem like seeking intimacy outside a relationship then there is no reason for me to continue that relationship; I can forgive, we could be friends, but I do not want them as a lover. If they are honest, forthright, and state they want to make the relationship work then I see potential for growth in the relationship and potential for trust to be regained.

Duana’s Response:

Dear Mark,

You have a handle on the Forgiveness Thang that is unusual and which I frankly envy, since you seem to have learned core forgiveness concepts naturally that many people take a very long while to discover.  Or perhaps I am assuming too much, and it took you just as long as many people.

Either way, I include myself among those many people. 

It wasn’t until I researched what is known, scientifically, about forgiveness that it finally hit me that:

a)  Forgiving often happens sooner than trusting, and sometimes trust is never re-established—nor deserved— even though forgiveness happens. 

In fact, the Law Of Psychology shows that a whole lot of the time, depending on the factors I wrote down for Z (above), the offender is going to re-offend if in the same situation.  They can be trusted…to Do It Again. 

For those people who truly aren’t going to Do It Again (whatever It is they did), it’s going to take a long, long time before any reasonable person fully trusts that/them.  That’s the way it is—there’s no quick path back to trust once it’s shattered. 

b) Sometimes, the reason people don’t forgive is because they don’t want to subject themselves to further abuse (of whatever kind, not only cheating).  And they feel that forgiving = saying Yes to further contact. 

But it could be so helpful for those folks to know that they can have *both* peace and safety.  As you’ve found, forgiveness is *not* the same thing as letting someone back into your life.  You forgive for your own health at every level; you also shut the door on some folks to protect your own health at every level.  Both are appropriate. 

And whereas the science supports your statement that “If they are honest, forthright, and state they want to make the relationship work then I see potential for growth in the relationship and potential for trust to be regained”, you’re also correct that if dishonesty, hesitation to be an open book about the future (and hopefully about the past as well), or an inability to work through ambivalence about which lover to choose remains at issue—it’s time for the Heave Ho at some level that makes sense for *you* (not for the offender—for you). 

c) In addition to the type of forgiveness we usually think of—where we let the offender know they are forgiven—there is Silent Forgiveness.  This happens when we forgive others but don’t tell them so.  It is a perfectly legit option if you require or desire any kind of safety (emotional, physical, economic, etc.) from the offender. 

Since forgiveness is for the forgiver, whether or not to tell the other party is purely up to the forgiver’s judgment, and is not a requirement of forgiving. 

d) Forgiveness should never be accompanied by forgetting, nor by making light of the offense. 

As Glass wrote, “Forgiveness is about as far away from ‘not a big deal’ as you can get.” 

As the adage puts it, “Wise people forgive, but only a fool forgets.” 

And as I like to say, “Yes, turn the other cheek, but you’ve only got four.” 

Memory protects us from Doormatitis.  Never forget. 

Cheers,

Duana

If this article intrigued, surprised or enlightened you, please click “Share Article” below to link it with your favorite social media website. 

All material copyrighted by Duana C. Welch, Ph.D. and Love Science Media, 2010

Do you have a question for Duana?  Contact her at Duana@LoveScienceMedia.com

Following my recent tip-off about Henry’s two-year infidelity with a colleague, he ceased contact with Anne, joined me in therapy, and apologized for endangering our marriage. 

But he won’t admit he had an affair, or tell me anything about it!  He insists Anne was “just a good friend” he never mentioned because he didn’t want me upset. 

Well, I’m beyond upset.  Why is the truth so hard for him to tell?  And (how) can I forgive him—for my sanity and our unity and our family? 

Katherine

Dear Katherine,

People don’t jeopardize their life’s foundation for “just a good friend”.   As your gut knows, Henry had an affair—and now he’s lying to you about lying to you.

That’s a problem; in addition to Henry’s present and future fidelity, you need his validation of the past.  Ideally, you need to hear every detail you ask for, when you ask for it, so you can heal and trust again.  If Henry would do that, science says your odds of reconciliation and forgiveness would soar, your likelihood of divorce would plummet, and you might even achieve intimacy you’d never known before.  Telling saves relationships. 

But that’s the opposite of what most people believe.  Even 41% of therapists (!) erroneously think True Confessions ruin reconciliation.  If that’s Henry’s fear, at least he’s trying to do the right thing now—albeit in the wrong way. 

And maaaaaybe Henry stopped short of sexual intercourse with Anne.  As an earlier Q&A showed, men tend to construe anything but Tab A in Slot B as not an affair—whereas most women find their partner’s emotional infidelity even more alarming than physical cheating. 

Yet forgiveness is the norm after infidelity —even among 2/3 of sex addicts’ betrayed spouses!  Whether Henry confesses or not, you can eventually get there, too.    

1. Feel What You Feel

Henry’s affair is new News.  Upon Impact, it’s near-compulsory to feel confusion mixed with every sad and ugly emotion ever invented.  (Ugly behavior is another thing; go there too often, and your marriage will implode no matter how right you are.) 

Months later, most couples find meaning and forgiveness.  But now, if you force it, all you’ll get is denial with a prettier label.  For the present, feel what you feel, behave respectfully, and forgive Henry…later. 

 2. Avoid Doormatitis

Forgiveness and reconciliation aren’t the same thing.  The former is an absolute necessity for your well-being.  But since Henry has not told you everything, keep listening to your gut, which is likely to be right a surprising amount of the time. *Staying together* is safe only if the betrayal stops, and stays stopped. 

To err is human; to forgive is divine.  But to be a doormat is optional. 

 3. Forgive When Ready

The Stanford Forgiveness Project found that forgiving *causes* better health, reduces stress and anger, and heightens optimism.  It’s a gift we give ourselves, regardless of whether the other person deserves or even knows about our forgiveness. 

 And…Forgiveness Can Be Learned:

a)      Buy –don’t borrow— Shirley Glass’ book Not “just friends”.  How often have I said people really must buy a book?  Only once before   .  And you truly need this, as does anyone wishing to prevent or survive infidelity.

b)      See things through Henry’s eyes.  There is no forgiveness without empathy.  And empathy entails seeing things from the other person’s viewpoint so you can replace your anger with insight. 

For instance, Henry is probably not only trying to prevent a divorce by refusing to discuss the past; he also likely intended for Anne to be “just a friend”. The most common form of long-term infidelity today starts when men and women who meet at work begin as (appropriately) friendly co-workers—and then without planning it out, eventually start relating (inappropriately) intimate details of their lives.  Once this occurs, a cascade of emotional, and often sexual, bonding begins between the former friends—with corresponding deceit towards the spouse.  All without an ounce of mean-spirited intent.   

This doesn’t excuse, condone, negate, or make you forget what Henry did.  Nothing short of traumatic head injury can (should?) do that.  And it does not mean you agree with Henry’s behavior, or even with his interpretation of it.    

But envisioning Henry’s viewpoint paves the road to forgiveness.  And nothing else will. 

c)     Put it in words.  Tell someone—Henry (without attacking him), a friend of your marriage, and/or a journal:   

*Say you’re in pain, and specify what you’re in pain about.   “I felt my heart and trust fall apart when I got that tip-off email.  I was in total shock, and it’s still hard for me to think back on it without pain and anger.”    

*Express how Henry might see his actions (see above). 

* Denote your boundaries—what you expect and what you won’t abide— to help you map out your distinction between forgiveness and reconciliation.  “I won’t tolerate any more secret friendships.  I expect that you and I will actively avoid sharing anything with an opposite-sex friend that we could not easily say in front of one another.  And I expect my questions about your friends to be answered honestly and willingly to protect our marriage.” 

*Specify what you’re forgiving Henry for.   “I forgive you for refusing to acknowledge your secret relationship as an affair.  I forgive you for not giving me details I asked for.  I forgive you for having had an emotional affair with Anne.  And I forgive you if it was a physical affair.”    

d)     Be patient and persistent.  Forgiveness is not achieved in a flash of insight, but gradually.  The greater the betrayal, the truer that is.   And sometimes hurt and anger will rear their snakey heads, Medusa-like, just when you thought this was Done. 

Yet with patient persistence, you’ll begin to see that you and Henry are vulnerable to each other once more, which is Forgiveness and Reconciliation in one.  You’ll resume living and loving again. 

So yes, Katherine, you *can* forgive your husband for his affair…not today, perhaps, and not easily, and not quickly—but surely.  I admire your wisdom in working towards it.  And I wish you restored in every way forgiveness heals. 

Cheers,

Duana

Related Love Science articles:

http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/affairs-forgiveness-you-oh-my.html

http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/comments-from-her-cheatin-heart-infidelitys-aftermath.html

http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/her-cheatin-heart-infidelitys-aftermath.html

http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-media/dealing-with-your-difficult-man.html

The author wishes to acknowledge the following scientists and sources:

—Shirley Glass, for authoring THE book on affair prevention and recovery—Not “Just Friends” : Protect Your Relationship from Infidelity and Heal the Trauma of Betrayal—and doing much of the research showing what works and what doesn’t.  Unless otherwise indicated, Dr. Glass was the source for all research in this article.    

—Everett Worthington, for authoring THE research-based book on forgiveness (of all kinds of offenses): Five Steps to Forgiveness: The Art and Science of Forgiving .  The man knows what he writes about, personally and professionally:  After he was already renowned for forgiveness research, Dr. Worthington’s mother was
murdered—and he managed to forgive the murderers. 

— Peggy Vaughan, for surveys showing that marriages are *more* likely to last if the involved partner discloses all the details of the affair, discussing it completely with the betrayed spouse (Glass found the same thing in her formal studies.).  Vaughan’s results showed that if an errant spouse would answer every question the betrayed spouse asked, 86% stayed together and 72% rebuilt their trust—compared to 59% and 31% if information was not forthcoming.  You can see her survey here.

—Jennifer P. Schneider and others, for research and international surveys showing that forgiveness of sex addicts is the norm, and that almost all couples dealing with sex addiction ultimately agree that revealing details the betrayed spouse wants to know is the best course of action.

—Kristina Gordon and Donald Baucom, for studies showing that forgiveness of infidelity travels through three reliable stages of Impact, Meaning, and Moving On—and that false forgiveness that is given too soon results in less intimacy, ultimately, than waiting until one is truly ready to forgive. 

—Carl Thoresen and Frederic Luskin and others in the Stanford Forgiveness Project, an experiment that randomly assigned half the participants to a 9-hour forgiveness workshop, resulting in improved health and happiness in a wealth of regards for those who went through the process of forgiving. 

If this article intrigued, surprised or enlightened you, please write a comment and/or click “Share Article” below to link it with your favorite social media website.

All material copyrighted by Duana C. Welch, Ph.D. and Love Science Media, 2010

Do you have a question for Duana?  Contact her at Duana@LoveScienceMedia.com

Affairs: They’re common.  But forgivable—how?  Many of you have asked.  And next week, I’ll answer. 

For now, though, it can help if you first see where you stand.  So please take three questionnaires and write me in the morning:

The first set of 16 questions deals with how vulnerable your relationship is to unhappiness that can be (but is *not* necessarily) at the root of an affair:  http://www.shirleyglass.com/quizrelationship.php

and how vulnerable you yourself are to being unfaithful (19 questions):  http://www.shirleyglass.com/quizindividual.php

And while we’re at it…what is forgiveness, and how have things gone with forgiving the last person who really hurt you?:  http://www.authentichappiness.org

Just surf to the middle of the page, and click on the Transgressions Motivation Questionnaire.  (Only academics would come up with that name instead of Forgiveness Quiz, right?  Oh, and also, this quiz only covers two aspects of forgiveness—it’s not The Whole Enchilada.  But it’s a good place to start.) 

You’ll be asked to register or log in, which I normally refuse to do.  However, Authentic Happiness is an exception, being a 100% research-based site you can use to improve your life generally, for free.  I use it, and so do my students.  So register, already. 

Then, take the 12-item quiz, which focuses on avenging and avoiding as signs of (un)forgiveness…

And write me in the morning. 

Cheers,

Duana

If this article intrigued, surprised or enlightened you, please write a comment and/or click “Share Article” below to link it with your favorite social media website.

All material copyrighted by Duana C. Welch, Ph.D. and Love Science Media, 2010

Do you have a question for Duana?  Contact her at Duana@LoveScienceMedia.com

The author wishes to acknowledge the following scientists and sources:

—Shirley Glass, for authoring not only the above infidelity quizzes, but also for conducting in-depth research culminating in her book Not “Just Friends” : Protect Your Relationship from Infidelity and Heal the Trauma of Betrayal  (PS: If you think your relationship might or has suffered an affair, Buy This Book—really.)

—Martin Seligman, for writing the research-based book Authentic Happiness and creating the same-name website to help us all live happier lives through scientific psychology. 

Our article on Sex Talks received so much feedback, we now need headings for the topics:  What if your kids ask for details about *your own* sex life?  What do you mean, kids don’t know what abstinence is?!  What about gay sex?  What do you say about the KY commercials?  What if you just do what your own parents did—and say nothing?  (And just why is that so tempting?) 

Read on! 

Cheers, Duana

Reader Comments (31)

           —You Mean It’s Not Just One Talk?!—

I absolutely think that starting these discussions early (much earlier than you think is necessary!) is what sets the tone for later discussions. Demystifying the topic of sexuality, and making it seem like just another (slightly awkward) thing that you talk about with your kids makes it that much more likely they’ll come to you when they have Really Big Important Questions. And the good news is that after a kid or two (or in my case four….) the conversations get less and less uncomfortable, and the littles join in conversations-in-progress that the bigs continue as the years go on. In other words, it becomes just part of what your family talks about, and not something that sticks out as The Talk. Here we are, still working out our own adult feelings about sexuality, so obviously it’s not a one time discussion! It’s an on-going dialog that I hope to have with my children for a long time to come!

May 26, 2010 | Leslie

Dear Leslie, I was trying to find something in your response that stood out as particularly relevant so I could re-emphasize it here, but…no luck. Everything you said was spot-on perfect.

And I agree with you that 4 or 6 is even unnecessarily late; Love Science is based on science data and opinions arising from those, and it seems that there is some agreement in the scientific community that “when kids ask” is a good time to launch the Series O’ Sex Talks. But my own opinion and personal practice is to see sexuality as something that is a part of our lives, cradle to grave, and to therefore work in acknowledgements and life lessons as they arise…even prior to age 4. You’re right, it just becomes an on-going conversation that is as natural as…well…sex.

Thanks again for a great contribution.

May 26, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

OMGosh. What rock was I born under.  

I had no idea “the talk” should be an ongoing matter. But it makes perfect sense. I assumed “the talk” would be an uncomfortable 10-minute explanation, delivered around the time that Nature delivered my daughter’s first period.

Needless to say, my own parents didn’t model this subject very well for me. In fact, I don’t recall having “the talk” in my house at all. One day, around age 10, my sister and I discovered a book “The Joy of Sex” (complete with extensive illustrations) on my parents’ bookshelf. I remember some of the pictures feeling very scary at that age. We also discovered Playboy Magazines piled neatly in the cabinet in my parents’ bathroom above the toilet. My sister and I used to sneak peeks at the centerfolds. We wanted assurances that we were developing normally. Well, we didn’t look like those models, that’s for sure.

And there was all sorts of misinformation at school. For example, In Junior High, one very popular boy was well-known for carrying a condom in his wallet. He insisted that any girl he was “going with” had to “do it” with him because “his buzzard ailed him.” (“Buzzard” was his pet name for his penis.) I actually believed his line that if a guy didn’t relieve his buzzard with a girl, he would suffer physical pain, become ill, or die. One of my girlfriends insisted that the boy was wrong: the condom was supposed to go over the girl’s breasts, not the boy.

I would laugh, except it’s not funny. The amount of misinformation was shocking.

We did have a “health class” at school, which taught the girls about menstruation (we watched a film), but in the 1970’s in public schools I don’t recall much discussion at school regarding sex education. And, as I pointed out, I didn’t get it at home, either.

For the longest time, I thought the term “oral sex” referred to something that was made-up, i.e., impossible. When people would speak of it, I was confused. I remember being shocked when I found out the truth of its actual definition.

So …. fast forward 40 years. My own daughter is age 9. She has not come to me with any questions or voiced any curiosity about sex (I’m sure my own queasiness may subconsciously color this …), though I know she must hear things, and like me at her age, she must wonder. So, thank you for the research that gives me the kick in the pants I need to open this conversation.

I’m thinking of buying an age-appropriate book and leaving it available where she will find out.

Any recommendations for such a book?

May 26, 2010 | A Mom

             —What Books Should I Get?  And How Should I Present Them? (Is It OK to Hide Them Where The Kids Will Find Out?)—

Dear A Mom,
I read your poignant and often hilarious letter with a mixture of recognition, sympathy, and anticipation. The anticipation was, of course, that you’ve opened the door for me to reveal so much more about the science ;).

But first, to answer your question about book recommendations: I don’t actually have just one (gasp!).

That’s because choosing a book (or series of books) is really so personal. What book you pick depends on the kids’ ages, what they might already know, and your own value system. There’s a book for every possible audience and every possible age, including adults.

That said, writing this article convinced me that *I* want to provide some more comprehensive sex ed for my kids (ages 8 and 12)—so I am getting two of the three books in Robie Harris’ acclaimed series: “It’s So Amazing” for 4th and 5th graders and “It’s Perfectly Normal” for pre-teens.

Harris has also authored a book for younger children, “It’s Not The Stork”, but in my opinion, it looks a bit young for a 9-year-old and might be better for ages 4-8.

And I’ve heard good things about Lynda Madaras’ book series, which you can preview here.

There’s also an interfaith-based but non-dogmatic series that’s received international acclaim: Our Whole Lives. This comprehensive sexuality education program is broken down into modules appropriate to every age, kinder through mature adult, and is taught at the Unitarian Universalist Church (for those who don’t want to Do It Yourself). You can read a bit of information about it here. (This is the link to the parent guide for k-4; it presumes you are looking to educate yourself about how to educate your child.)

Of course, you can preview all of these and more by going through interlibrary loan at your local library, and then elect to purchase the one(s) you prefer.

Finally—since you didn’t ask, lol—I would advise *giving* the book to your daughter, rather than letting her find it; the latter approach could add to any impression she already has that Sex Is Dirty & Should Be Hidden. Instead, you could tell her something along these lines:

“Sweetheart, you are growing up, and you might be curious about some things we’ve never discussed. You have probably heard some things about sex, right? (Await embarrassed response.) Well, I would like to talk about what you’ve heard, and be the one you trust for your questions about sex, just like I’m the one you trust for everything else. Nobody ever talked to me about it, so I haven’t known what to say to you.
“So, we are going to start out by reading this book and talking about it. Here it is. Let’s read some of it together in a couple hours. You can look at it ‘til then, if you like.”

Good luck, A Mom, and kudos to you for beginning this series of talks with your child. Please write back and let me know how it went, which book you chose—and how you liked it.

May 26, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

           —What Do *Parents* Wrongly Believe About The Talk(s)?—

A Mom, your letter brought up some other vital points research has addressed, including the fact that it’s common for parents to assume one or more of the following:

a) If I don’t tell my kids about sex, then they will remain unaware of it.

Scientific reality:

If we don’t tell our kids, others will—and what they tell is almost certainly NOT what we would approve.

In the absence of parental influence, Susan Sprecher and the Kaiser Family Foundation found that today’s USA kids say their #1 and #2 sources of sexual information are their peers and the media.

Peers matter:

Not only do they give grossly inaccurate information (as you so aptly experienced), but in 2006, Sieving and others found that if a girl or boy had friends who were sexually experienced, the more such friends they had, the more likely they themselves were to have sex within the course of the study.

And programming matters:

Unlike when you and I grew up, the media is a much greater and much more inaccurate source of misinformation and influence than ever before. Think of the shows that aired when you were a child—where belly buttons could not be displayed, and even the married could not appear to sleep in the same bed. Now picture today’s cell phones, where kids surf the ‘net unsupervised and post pornographic photos as their phone’s wallpaper. It’s a Terrifying New World.

The reasons unfettered access to sexual programming is problematic are many: First, kids learn scripts for what their sexual behavior should be like from media exposure—and the scripts are based on anything but reality. For instance, in the real world, most of the sex is being had by married people who use protection; in the digital world, the opposite is true.

Second, kids learn inaccurate stereotypes from the media—such as the body image problems you developed from Playboy, or the penis size and performance issues boys get from watching porn.

Also, kids who view the most sexual content are the ones who start sex sooner (Collins et al., 2004). And this is *not* merely correlational. Experiments show that exposure to sexual behavior on TV causes more permissive sexual attitudes towards nonmarital sex (Bryant & Rockwell, 1994).

May 27, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

(continued)

Parental assumptions b, c, and d, per the science, are:
b) If I tell my kids, they will think I approve of their having sex
c) The influences Out There (peers, media) are so profound, whatever I say won’t make a difference
d) My kids really don’t want to hear whatever I have to say about sex

Scientific reality:

As the article shows, kids actually delay starting sex, have sex with fewer partners when they do start, and keep themselves safe the more their parents talk with them. The more often parents speak with the kids, the truer that is. And that’s vital on every level—from disease and preg prevention, to emotional development and future happiness (or, as a reader wrote to me privately, “Knowledge is power and blissful ignorance frequently precludes future bliss.”).

And Parents’ Influence Is MORE Important Than Media Influence—*if* the parents choose to express their values, and comprehensively address not only what sex entails (and what its dangers are), but also the contraceptive facts and emotional and pleasurable aspects of sexuality.
A national study by Albert in 2004 showed that nearly half of middle-schoolers said that their *parents* were the single greatest influencers of the kids’ sexual decision-making. Given that a third or more of kids say their folks *never* talk to them about sex, it may be appropriate to assume that the near-half of kids who follow their parents’ preferences are the ones who know what those preferences and expectations are.

If any of us thinks our kids will simply tune us out—think again. Kids *want* our input, but by middle school, they’re unlikely to ask for it because by then, they have developed specific fears: fears that they will be embarrassed, be misunderstood, or be presumed sexually active (Lederman et al., 2008).

Kids also prefer *both* their parents talk to them about sex—yet even in families where sex and sexuality are discussed, it’s mostly Mom doing the talking. Time for The Dad to get more involved, even if he has to take a major chill pill first!

May 27, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

(continued)

Finally, many parents assume that
e) I don’t need to get involved in my kids’ sex ed. The schools take care of that!

The scientific reality is, that’s inaccurate on many levels:

—No matter how comprehensive the schools’ education is, it leaves out the positives and emotional side of sex and sexuality, aspects which are important for kids’ development into adults who are ready to have a great relationship with a mate.

—Because federal funding in the past several years has supported abstinence-only education (despite studies showing that as many as 90% of parents prefer comprehensive education, particularly for high-schoolers), most of the available courses do not discuss contraception. Those that do, stress the failure rates of contraception—causing many kids to assume that “what the hey, condoms don’t work anyway, so I’ll just go without (without condoms…not sex)”.

And imagine my surprise when, to prepare for this column, I went to a local public school to review their abstinence-only program—only to find that *abstinence was nowhere defined*. The course literally said “Be Abstinent” but did not say what that meant.

No wonder, then, that my college students (who went through these programs) routinely assume that pulling out, oral sex, and anal sex all qualify as abstinent. And studies bear out that ignorant kids are in fact doing those very behaviors while believing themselves virginal and safe.

—Finally—by the time schools become involved in sex ed, even the best program is too late. Our kids need to hear about sex early and often, from us, for maximum impact and imparting not only preventive behaviors—but also for adopting values that only we can pass on.

May 27, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

           —(Why) Is Anal Sex Dangerous?—

Mrs. Welch, Is anal sex dangerous?

May 30, 2010 | ST

Hi, ST,
Anal sex is one of the riskiest practices for getting HIV and some other STI’s (sexually transmitted infections, formerly known as sexually transmitted diseases). This is especially the case when practiced between people who are non-monogamous and who are not using condoms as protection, and especially for the person who is experiencing the penetration. That’s because the lining of the anus develops tiny cuts and tears that allow bacteria and viruses to invade the system. However, because anal sex cannot result in pregnancy, and because it does not involve penile-vaginal penetration, some kids do this to remain virgins and avoid pregnancy. (Ditto for oral sex, although the odds of getting many STI’s orally are reduced, as compared with vaginal and anal infection rates.)

May 30, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

            —If My Kid Is Religious, Will S/he Wait?—

Go team Duana! Preach it, sister!

My parents didn’t tell us much about sex — they both thought that they were totally open about it with us, and we think it’s kind of hilarious that they thought we’d ever have dreamed of asking them anything whatsoever about sex.

Fortunately, I got access to a copy of The Joy of Sex when I was 11 and read it about 50times. It was very positive about sex but discussed it mainly in terms of grownups in long term monogamous relationships. Among other things, it convinced me that the smelly, yell-y, annoying creatures that were teenage boys would be incapable of actually doing anything like a good job of making sex worth my while.

One huge caveat: both old and new editions of TJoS repeat the myth that using, ahem, female personal novelty devices to maximize enjoyment might somehow interfere with later sensitivity. This is a load of BS, and the last thing a parent should do is allow a teenager to be scared off of masturbation. Masturbation is a profoundly important aid to abstinence. Kids need to know that it is a safe and healthy option as long as it is kept profoundly private. My whole first marriage could have been avoided had I known that. (Not kidding.)

My mom did me one huge favor — she mentioned to me quite a few times (before I hit puberty) that as a girl she had found a friend’s dad’s Playboy collection and that it was important for girls to know that those photos are not realistic. They used to use dozens of rolls of film (when they used film) and then the resultant handful of ideal pics were airbrushed with a heavy hand. It’s important that girls know that not only are the ideals held up by Maxim and Victoria’s Secret not realistic, they aren’t even *real*. It takes a lot of body makeup to make someone who eats like a model look healthy on the runway.

It strikes me as hilarious (and sad) that we believe strongly that we must educate our children thoroughly about drug and alcohol abuse so that they are less likely to do drugs or binge-drink but we also think that explaining the pluses and minuses of sex will make them do it. Again, what a load of BS.

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, PEOPLE! Between The Joy of Sex and the chart giving the failure rates on birth control that I found in one of my mom’s women’s magazines, I waited quite a while to “get busy” — because I knew that it wasn’t something that a 17 year old boy would be either an expert on or a reliable partner for.

BTW, another vital thing: One friend of mine made a “pact” with another adult friend (it has to be someone truly trustworthy) to provide birth control, if needed, for each other’s teens. That is, the teens had it explained to them that if they chose to be sexually active, they could go to the *other* mom and ask for help. Both moms were totally sworn to secrecy — no tattling allowed! This was set up to make sure those teens had a reliable source of birth control AND knew that their parents took the matter seriously. The “if you can’t stay abstinent, be smart” approach seems to have worked.

Another friend simply bought a bunch of condoms and individual packets of lube, put them in a basket in the hall closet, and announced to her three teenage sons that she hadn’t counted them but would replenish them whenever they expired. If nothing else, this gave her kids the vital knowledge that CONDOMS HAVE AN EXPIRATION DATE.

Why do I think these moms were brilliant? Because they wanted very much for their kids to have no excuse to skip the birth control! I can’t tell you how many good Christian abstinence-only kids I knew who would semi-consciously set things up so that sex would “just happen,” as in “we didn’t mean for it to happen, it just did.”

I heard so many “confessions” about these things as a teen that I began to think all teens but myself were complete idiots. They weren’t all idiots, actually, but they were going on some sort of idea that it was morally better to stray “accidentally” than to plan enough to have a condom handy. Or as one pregnant teen famously told her mom, “Of course we didn’t use birth control, that’s a sin!”

So make sure your kids know enough to know that if you can’t talk to your partner about birth control and/or safer sex, then you don’t know that person well enough to have sex with them. This is something that is just as true for those who wait until college and beyond as it is for teens, so teach them whether you are dead set on abstinence only or not. There is nothing in the world wrong with teaching your kids that sex should never be an “accident.” That kind of accident leads to other accidents, as well as STDs.

This is too long already, so I can’t hurt it by adding: make sure your kids know that other teens and adults may not know what the heck abstinence is. A guy who honestly believes that pulling out makes him “abstinent” will not know that he could easily be carrying an STD that he might share with your daughter, regardless of whether the uneducated one and said girl are 18, 25, or 70 (don’t ask about how many of the elderly don’t understand safe sex, that’s a whole other column).

May 27, 2010 | Mocha’s Mom

Mocha’s Mom, You make a number of valid points, particularly about masturbation (which we will cover in another column or three); the fallacy of parents who Offer To Be There For Your Questions —and then never actually tell the kids anything (!); and the complex role religion plays in abstinence.

It’s hard to find *anyone*, regardless of religion—from heads of state to heads of households—who doesn’t want kids to have as few partners as possible, as late as possible. It is simply a huge public health concern in addition to being vital to our kids’ future ability to sustain a solid relationship.

That said, religion both helps and hinders abstinence. On the one hand, research shows that kids who are the most religiously active (that is, the ones who attend services weekly or oftener) tend to wait the longest to start having sex. BUT not always—and even then, they usually don’t wait until marriage—and when they don’t, there’s the rub.

They are more likely, because of guilt induced in their religion, to not use any sort of protection. The chain of illogic runs this way: Birth control requires planning; planning indicates premeditation; premeditation is evil; but Just Letting It Happen is less wrong.

Resulting in STD’s and teen pregnancies and sad statements like the one you reported: “Of course I didn’t use birth control. That’s a sin!”

May 27, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

      —What Do You Say If You Ask Your Kid What She Knows About Sex, and She Knows Nothing? —

P.S. What if I ask my daughter (age 9) if she’s heard about sex at school, and she says “no”?

May 27, 2010 | A Mom

Dear A Mom,
You made my day. Glad to be of service, ma’am. BTWay, I had not read much of the research about this prior to receiving The Mom’s enquiry. There is a mind-boggling array of thorough science on this and many topics of sexuality about the under-20’s set. And it is changing my approach to parenting, too.

If your daughter says she has not heard anything, you can follow up with, “Well, when I was your age, sometimes kids joked around about how babies were made, or about boys’ and girls’ bodies and how they are different. And I learned a lot of things that turned out to be not true, and some that disgusted and embarrassed me. So I want to make sure you learn it all right from someone who loves you, and that’s me.”

And go from there.

My very best to you and your child. Thank you for reading and contributing.

May 27, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

           —What Do *Kids* Wrongly Believe About Sex?  And What’s The Role Of Guilt In Getting Them To Wait?—

Dear Duana,

As I always do, I thoroughly enjoyed reading this informative, factual, and humorous article. As I have told you many times, YOU truly are an excellent writer, and have become one of my favorite authors. How’s that for a genuine compliment?!

Regarding the seriousness of your article’s topic…I have been a middle school band director and private instrumental middle and high school teacher for almost 23 years now. I have literally taught thousands of kids in the amazing ‘wonder years’ of 11-18 years old. Since I have the wonderful pleasure of teaching kids music in a one-on-one teaching environment, I get to know each child’s unique personality, and often develop an awesome, trusting friendship with my students that last well into their adulthood. I feel so lucky and blessed.

Because I often have a good and trusting rapport with my students, they often come to me and ask me serious questions about life issues, and many of their questions are regarding sexual issues. Since so many kids ask me about this touchy subject, I made it a policy a long time ago to tell the parents, and get their permission, to please allow me to speak directly and frankly about any subject the student feels a need to discuss; HOWEVER, I also ask the parents to please trust my judgment and advice to their children, so much so, that I NOT feel pressured to reveal to them what their child has told me in private, unless they are going to hurt themselves or others. Thankfully, almost 100% of my student’s parents have agreed to this policy. In turn, I have kept my word to my students about keeping their questions and our serious discussions between us, while at the same time, giving them accurate information.

I’m now 41 years old, and throughout the years, I have been asked so many unusual and horribly misinformed questions about sex. Because kids most often get their ‘sexual education’ from their friends or from TV. shows…well, as a teacher and a mother, at times I have been simply dumbfounded at what teenagers believe about the following:

2. If the guy withdrawals before ejaculation, then there is NO possibility of a resulting pregnancy. Again my direct answer as to why this belief is so incorrect results in a repeat of the above reaction…their jaws hit the floor and that horrid skin pallor returns to their frightened faces.

There are so many other questions that I have been asked over the years, but I just wanted to make the point about the misinformation most teenagers have about sex…because they get their ‘fact’s from their friends or the media. Kids feel comfortable talking to me, a middle age lady, about this embarrassing subject, because I simply don’t make them feel embarrassed or awkward for asking a question about sex, or any other topic. Being a role-model and a trusted adult resource for so many kids has been quite an important life ‘calling’, and my way of helping kids grow up to be healthy and happy adults. After all, it takes a village to raise a child.

Parents, PLEASE, PLEASE start talking to your children as soon as they become curious. There are so many opportunities to talk about sex in an open, direct, and non-embarrassing way. Your children should feel comfortable coming to YOU for the answer to these serious questions. If you make them feel guilty, shameful, or embarrassed even in the slightest…well, I’m here to tell you that your child will never ask you another question regarding this issue again. They will instead ask their friends, who more often than not, don’t have a clue to the true facts…OR your kid will mimic the sexual promiscuity that is modeled on many popular teen TV. shows, by their peers, YouTube videos, internet porn sites…etc, etc. Again fellow parents, TALK TO YOUR CHILDREN ABOUT SEX IN A SIMPLE, NON-THREATENING WAY. Believe it or not, your child wants to be able to go to YOU to ask you these hard-to-ask questions…now it’s up to you to open up the communication line with your teen.

May 28, 2010 | Laura Lucio

Dear Laura,
Thank you for a powerful letter (compliments duly noticed, btway ;) ). You’ve got front-line experience with topics the Centers For Disease Control, American Academy of Pediatrics, Kaiser Family Foundation, and many, many other laudable research organizations have wrestled with for years.

You’re right: Guilt backfires; misinformation is the rule rather than the exception when parents can’t or won’t be kids’ primary resource; and although in theory, kids could turn to a trusted adult besides their parents, the reality is that it seldom happens.

The generations, past present and future, who are lucky enough to have you to fill the knowledge and trust gap are fortunate, indeed. For the rest of our kids: We are the answer they seek.

May 28, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

         —What Do You Say About The KY Jelly Commercials On TV?— 

Here is an (edited to protect privacy) letter another Love Science reader sent:

Dear Duana, Boy do I have questions! I’ve had The Talk with my 10-year-old girl (used a book or two to help with that), and when we watch TV together and there are situations on TV that pop up, I point out how unrealistic they are. My questions are: What should I do about the commercials that pop up on TV, such as those for KY Jelly and birth control? How much detail should I get into and at what age? How often should we talk about it? What about gay and lesbian relationships and their sex? We are very accepting of homosexuality; I just don’t know how to convey my values and specifics of homosexuality to my daughter.
Denise

May 28, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

Dear Denise, Kudos to you for finding those teachable moments during TV time. Research shows that kids watch the media differently in their parents’ presence, doing “social referencing”, which simply means, looking to you for your response and guidance. Even when kids appear to be letting your reaction slide, they are paying attention and adopting your stated values over those they’re seeing onscreen—as long as you’re sharing those. (In fact, research shows that on matters of politics, religion, sexuality, and other values, kids still follow their parents’ lead—if their parents make sure to lead them.)

Regarding commercials: The mute button is a beautiful thing (for all commercials, for many research-based reasons). Some parents make hitting “mute” for commercials part of the price of watching TV. Good idea.

But if you’re keeping commercials on, use them as teachable moments just as you’re doing with the TV shows. The oftener you find ways to discuss sex and sexuality, the better — it’s Not Just One Talk, as you’ve quickly discerned. Nobody knows your 10-year-old like you do, so you’ll quickly figure out the right level of information and detail and length to share. Asking questions often helps you discern this, plus learn what your child does and does not know: “Do kids at school ever talk about this? What do they say?” “Do you know what this commercial is talking about?” You can also express your values: “This is a commercial that tells how some people prevent having babies. Here is what I believe about that.”

             —And What About Gay Sex?—

Regarding homosexuality and what to teach your daughter about it: Good for you for creating another tolerant and accepting person. The self-esteem and life you could be saving could be her own—coming out is a high-risk time (suicidally) for gay and lesbian teens when they feel the weight of hatred from peers and families. So if your daughter were to be lesbian, you’re doing her a huge service. Moreover, if she is heterosexual, she will know gay and lesbian people, and it is important for her to know it is not an orientation people choose.

Indeed, there is not one shred of science showing that *anything* done after birth can cause or change a person’s sexual orientation. The genetic and pre-birth environment reign supreme in causing orientation.

That said, what you tell your daughter about sex between same-sex partners will require your judgment of her readiness to hear—and just as with everything else, It’s Not Just One Talk.

You might begin by asking what she already knows: “Sometimes, women grow up to love and marry another woman rather than a man. Sometimes, men grow up to love and marry another man and not a woman. What do you already know about that?” (If you disagree with same-sex marriage, choose an explanation that fits, like “live with” or “commit to” or “spend their lives with”.)

As far as the nitty-gritty of what goes into gay and lesbian sex, you might just say something along these lines: “You remember that sex is something moms and dads do to have babies, right? Well, sometimes, men fall in love with men, or women fall in love with women. They cannot make a baby together, but they can still be in love, and they can still touch each other to show that they are in love. Sex is not only about making babies. It also helps people to stay in love for a long, long time.” Then, as your child grows up, you can get into more detail as it seems warranted.

Thank you for great questions, Denise, and for creatively finding ways to make the media *help* you with The Talk(s).

May 28, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

            —What’s The Difference Between Talking Sex, Versus Talking Sexuality?—

Just curious. This article seems to talk about sex. I’m wondering what the difference is between that and sexuality. Do you advise talking about those things the same way?

May 28, 2010 | Curious

Hi, Curious,
Your question is important, because sex and sexuality aren’t the same thing, and you’re right—the article focuses on sex, but it’s best to discuss *both* things with kids.

Sex is The Act Itself. Sexuality is the psychology and emotion and nuance and comprehensive sensuality surrounding the sex act.

So although little kids don’t have sex, they do have sexuality. For instance, masturbation is very common among infants and toddlers, even though the touching is usually pleasurable but short of orgasm (yes, orgasms have been observed in toddlers who are touching themselves). And little children do fall in love with one another, expressing it with words and hand-holding.

Our response to children’s (and to our own) sexuality is life-altering, and I do advise speaking of sexuality and not just the act of sexual intercourse. For one thing, many risky behaviors involve sexuality (oral sex, for instance), and kids need to know parental expectations and values and facts about those non-intercourse activities.

For another, sexuality points to a vital distinction between us and over 99% of the other species in the known world: We Are Sexual Beings Whose Sexuality Is Primarily About Making A Long-term Love Bond—not about making babies. Everything else on the planet makes babies, then cuts and runs…only we and a select few other species use sexuality to create and continue Love itself.

For that reason, then, it’s important to discuss sexuality as the opportunities arise (and to show it through exemplifying physical and verbal affection with our own mates in front of the kids). Sexuality is about heart, and ultimately, that is the most satisfying, life-affirming, sustaining aspect of the entire deal.

May 28, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

          —What Is A Date?  And If Kids Start Dating Early, Do They Start Doing It Early, Too?—

OK, so I just discovered that yesterday a little girl in my daughter’s class (age 9 - 3rd grade) had a private playdate (chaperoned by parents, of course) with a little boy in her class, on whom she has a crush. And the boy reciprocates the crush … and Dang! That sound like a full-blown DATE to me.

This is confusing to both me and my daughter.

She wanted to know, “Mommy, do they like each other or do they LIKE LIKE each other?” I do not understand her code language, so I explained it like this: “Darling, there are 2 kinds of feelings about boys. One feels like just another friend, even a girlfriend. But the other kind … well, it’s when being around the boy or thinking of him gives you butterflies.”

My daughter assured me that these 2 kids DO have the butterflies for each other.

Additionally, she wanted to know, “what do you DO on a playdate with a boy you have butterflies for? Is it like you sit a long time and look at each others’ eyes and say, ‘ohhhh, you’re soooo Hottttttt?’” My answer was, “Nope. You do the same thing you would if you don’t have butterflies. Just talk, hangout, play games, run around outside, and have fun.”

Would you please comment on this? Is it good/healthy/normal/customary for 3rd graders to have private boy/girl playdates when a crush is involved?

May 28, 2010 | A Mom

Dear A Mom,
First and foremost: Congratulations. You have clearly launched The Talk with your daughter! Big change since your first posting on this thread. Good for you. And her.

As far as dating: It turns out that science shows the sooner kids go on dates, the sooner they tend to become sexually involved ala intercourse. So your maternal alarm bells may be going off for good reason.

The question, though, is—what’s a date?

 How people define that is really subjective, and I don’t know of science about it (which isn’t to say such science is absent—I just haven’t reviewed it yet.) Some people think a date entails one person taking another person to a specific place, alone or with others, for the purpose of being romantic, sexual, or both. Some think a date happens anytime two people who “Like Like” each other are together (chaperoned or not).

In other words, this is a grey area where your values and opinions reign supreme. I think you did a great job of telling her what *you* would expect of behavior between two kids who “Like Like” each other. And that’s really the important thing.

That—and that you started The Conversation. Again, well done.

May 30, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

            —Does Kissing Cause Sex?—

I am reeling from all this. It will fall to my shoulders to do these discussions and according to you, I am late. The questioning by A Mom makes me start wondering. What about kissing? When does that start in the young kids? Kissing causing pregnancy is not too far from the truth.

May 28, 2010 | another Mom

Please don’t be afraid and don’t feel - I dunno - ashamed about what you did or didn’t do or know before.

The choices that we make each have their consequences. So it’s important to (1) know that you do have choices, and (2) know what the range of consequences are for each choice set, and (3) make good decisions about what consequences you are able and willing to afford in your life … . and that includes the lives of your kids.

It’s been my experience, with my four sons, that I haven’t necessarily been their main source of “base information” about sex and sexuality, but I have been their point of reference for how they want to think about it. (They observe their parents.) I’m grateful that their choices have been positive.

May 29, 2010 | Tom

Dear Another Mom,
Please don’t be tough on yourself if you’ve delayed initiating The Talk—sooner is better than later, but later beats never by a wide margin.   

I think it’s safe to say that all of us are learning all the time (present company included). No matter how old your kids are, you can start now, and they will benefit from your input, even if they act like they’re stuffing cotton in their ears. This is especially true as you model the behavior for them that you want them to adopt. The old adage that actions speak louder than words continues to hold, in science and everywhere else, too. (Kudos to Tom for pointing that out.)  

I like your observation that “Kissing causing pregnancy is not too far from the truth.” Indeed! Another Love Science article and comments section goes into The Kiss, and you can read it here.

To expand on that: As data would have it, male saliva contains testosterone. Testosterone is a true aphrodisiac—the single-most-powerful chemical involved in causing female arousal and desire. So during deep kissing, men (much more than women) prefer wet kisses that effectively act as foreplay for intercourse. Men may also use kissing to probe for female fertility—they haven’t got the market cornered on chemical exchange, and women’s saliva also yields information, although of course all of this is at a non-conscious level. The conscious part is something along the lines of, “Want you reaaaaalll bad.”

Note I’ve been saying “men” and “women”, not “boys” and “girls”. That’s because I don’t know of any reasearch on kissing and childhood. Frankly, I am having a tough time finding it (even well-regarded textbooks on human sexuality tend to have one or two references to kissing of any kind among any age group—tops).

My guess is that there’s not much research on it, for the following reasons:
1. Research is oriented towards solving social and health problems that can be grant-funded.
2. Sex among kids is a widely acknowledged social and health problem, so intercourse studies (and studies dealing with very closely related issues, such as contraception use) receive the lion’s share of the funding.
3. Other risky behaviors are likewise public health issues, so oral and anal sex among kids and young adults also receives many research dollars.
4. Kissing, being a low-risk activity as far as immediate health consequences, likely receives much less funding or research interest.

But as you’ve guessed, kissing is the foot-in-the-door (or, as I call it, hand-in-the-bra) that gets the, um, ball rolling. So maybe we need to know a bit more about it.

Thanks much for contributing your thoughts. I hope you will return.

May 30, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

           —What If My Kids Ask About My Own (Past or Present) Sex Life!?—

I like this research column. It makes me think: My parents didn’t talk to me about sex. I’ve made alot of mistakes that I don’t want my own kids to make. Fortunately, I did not become pregnant too young, or unmarried, or catch a disease. But I sure had alot of opportunities.

I am dreading the questions I could get from my kids. I think it’s natural for kids to want to know what their parents did when they were young, when they had their first sex, etc. For example, “Did you and Dad wait?” The answer to that is no, we had sex in high school. In such matters, is honesty always the best policy?

May 28, 2010 | ST

Dear ST,
It’s good to hear another new voice, and I hope you’ll be returning. Your comment is bound to resonate with many; what could be scarier than having our kids ask us about our own sexual past?

That fear will probably prove unfounded, though. Kids are indeed curious about sex. But they are, by and large, grossed out by thinking of either of their *parents* having sex—ever! To wit, even adult children often try to prevent their parents from having sexual privacy in nursing homes, the thought so creeps them out (Sadly, I am not making this up—it’s in the research).

But let’s assume your kids do want to know. After all, there are apocryphal stories floating around about youngsters who ask if they can observe their folks getting it on. (Now, that creeps *me* out.)

In that case: It Is None Of Their Business. Your personal past and your marital relationship are Your private (some might say sacred) events between you and your spouse.
Put in terms kids can hear, “Although I am your source for questions about sex and love, my own sex life and relationship with Dad is private.”

But there’s more than one reason to keep firm boundaries on what you share about your own sex life, and the main one is: “Do As I Say, Not As I Did” never has worked very well for keeping kids out of mischief. Parents who smoke(d) are likely to have kids who smoke—despite telling the kids not to. Parents who have affairs (that the kids know about) are likely to produce kids who have affairs—no matter how ugly the aftermath. And parents who had kids while in their teens have a reaaaaaally tough time getting their own kids to abstain. Again—all borne out in the science.

So if you had sex sooner than you want your kids to, I can’t advise ‘fessing up now. Maybe someday, when your kids are adults, it will make sense to tell the truth. ‘Til then, though, this is one case where your history is yours alone, and honesty is not the best policy.

Thanks again for an important contribution.

May 30, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

            —Why Did Yesterday’s Parents Get Away With Saying Nothing?  And Why Can’t Today’s Parents Do That, Too?—

Hi, Tom,
Thanks for weighing in and offering needed compassion and insight. You’ve underscored vital points that 1) kids do what they witness their parents doing, even more than they reference what their parents say; and 2) there is no use flogging or shaming ourselves for the past. Time to march onward as clarity comes through. If Love Science and its readers are providing some of that clarity, then this writer—who started reading the science 20 years ago primarily to help me clamber out of my own supreme ignorance—is highly gratified, indeed. I’m still clambering, and it’s great to see so many who want to climb along with me.

Your note also caused me to think (as your notes so often do) of something else: It’s a new world out there—one where the parents have to be Brave. If I have gauged your age correctly, you are somewhere in your fifties; I’m 41.

Although speaking to kids about sex was the exception rather than the rule when we ourselves were children, and your kids turned out well without so much direct input from you, there are new dangers to taking that stance today.

Namely, the media influence is so much more prevalent and graphic and available and hence, *influential* than it was when we were kids. Back in the day, when parents didn’t talk to kids about sex, kids did talk to one another—but they had relatively little to go on other than some stacks of Playboy and some gossip and guessing.

Now, when peers become the primary purveyors of all things sexual, they are often conveying grossly inaccurate and compelling images and ‘lessons’ they have obtained from hard-core porn, a vast array of televised programming intended for mature adults, movies that will curl or straighten your hair (or grow it, if you have none), and interactive websites where pedophiles pose as children.

Researchers refer to this as the “two-step flow of communication” where a few kids interact with a media source—and then pass the influence onward to their peers who have *never* interacted with it. It’s why toddlers who’ve never been exposed to TV know who Dora The Explorer is; less innocently, it’s how kids who’ve never surfed sex sites know what anal sex is. And believe all sorts of dangerous things about it.

Parents’ #1 stated reason for not talking to their kids about sex, per research now, is fear and embarrassment. But it’s a new world. Time, then, for today’s parents to be Braver and more up-front about The Talks than any prior generation.

May 30, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

         —Other Wise Comments From Wise Readers—

Upcoming Love Science topics are often pre-announced on Facebook to see what readers want to know, or what they already know. Here is what several of our more astute Wise Readers said about this topic beforehand:

—My husband and I have approached talking to our children about sex and other topics such as drugs very openly, and with a sense of humor and sincerity. Our views are that our kids are exposed to alot of talk and some misinformation from friends, and we want to let them know that we can be talked to openly. We have found what was first an awkward subject to begin with is now a common subject. We preach protection and responsibility. I am glad you are tackling this topic. Once the topic is opened it becomes easier to deal with.

—I’d keep a shotgun behind the door and nobody would need to know it wasn’t really loaded. Seriously - whatever a parent’s answer is on the subject, they need to be sure to make their standard loud and clear and to not leave room for confusion. Your kids are not your roommates, they are yours to discipline and teach.

—There are too many teen pregnancies around here-I feel like passing out condoms at ALL teen functions-even at churches. Teens just want to fit in—fitting in does not mean giving in.

—All I know is, I messed up by not talking to my daughter earlier in life… In desperate need of knowledge on what to do now that she is entering teenhood.

—Not looking forward to “The Talk”. My daughter is only 7 but I need to start early.

—It’s more than just The Talk. it’s a series of mini-talks that answer questions as they come up, over a period of time, like from age 7 to age 25. and it’s important to answer each question, then recognize when the child is DONE talking about it at that time. (i.e. don’t give more information than what they are asking at the time). they need time to process the answer. just throwin’ my two cents into the mix…….

—I would venture to say that “The Talk” isn’t as ideal as talking about it on a consistent basis, starting as soon as their curiosity blossoms. We don’t have to explain everything all at once. Having open communication with no shame is ideal, even if you have conservative views.

—You’ll get an earful on this one. I’m sorry to say girls have started as early as 10-12 yrs old. I see this in my job every day. Often I ask myself: “Where are their mothers?” “Why don’t they care enough of their daughters to make sure this doesn’t happen to them?” I have to bite my tongue and keep my opinions to myself.

—Now if parents would turn off the radio/cell phones and teens would turn off the Ipod and cell phones—-the magic can begin simply while driving in the car.

Well said, Wise Readers.

May 28, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

Thank you, Dr. Duana, for another extremely beneficial and informative column! I’ll never forget when I learned the basics about sex…my girlfriend and I were probably seven years old and in her backyard playing when an old man wandered up (no fence) and proceeded to tell us the “facts of life”. We were horrified and didn’t believe him! Not a good way to learn the basics!

As a result, when my own two children were ages two and three, I checked out a book called “Where Babies Come From” and read it to them. I was determined that some dirty old man wasn’t going to tell my children about sex. They loved that book and would ask for it to be read again and again. When their dad read it to them and tried to skip certain pages, they were quick to get him back on the right page—they had memorized the book!

They’re adults now, and they sometimes tease me about that book, but I’ll always be grateful that they learned the basics about sex from their parents and not some stranger .

May 27, 2010 | Louise

Dear Louise, What an awful way for you and your friend to find out the basics, indeed. Good for you for deciding to take your own children’s sex education in hand so you could help them see you as the safe person to go to for advice—and so their first knowledge of what’s what would feel safe, too, rather than frightening. I’ll bet your children appreciate your approach, and you, tremendously. If you can tell us more about how that worked out over their growing-up years, that would be great.

May 27, 2010 | Duana C. Welch, Ph.D.

Dear Dr. Welch:

Thank you for such a thorough and thoughtful answer to my question! I am benefitting immensely, as my daughter will, too, and still processing all that you’ve written.

My paradigm is shifting … shifting …. shifting …. away from the common assumptions a) - d) (all of which I held to some degree) and toward the better approach to talk, talk, talk.

Now that I have this information (and I wouldn’t have believed it, if it were not scientifically-based), I am determined to do a better job in this area than my own parents did. Thanks for getting the word out.

May 27, 2010 | A Mom

Postscript: As of today (June 2^nd, 2010), I’ve given my kids the Robie Harris books linked above, and it’s gone very, very well; they’ve asked many questions that might never have come up otherwise, and our discussions have already been more fun and informative than at any point prior. 

Thanks for the great insights and questions.  Love Science has changed my own presentation of sex(uality) to my kids—I hope it helps someone in a Home Near You, too. 

Cheers,

Duana

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All material copyrighted by Duana C. Welch, Ph.D. and Love Science Media, 2010

Do you have a question for Duana?  Contact her at Duana@LoveScienceMedia.com

My husband and I want our kids, ages 5 through 11, to delay sex at least until college.  But he thinks it’s too soon to talk, and that The Talk “just gives them permission”.  I think if we want our kids to have our values later, we must become the go-to resource now.  Your column is about adult relationships, but we are trying to create tomorrow’s functional adults, so I am hoping you’ll tell me whether, what, when, and how we tell our kids about S-E-X?

The Mom

Dear The Mom,

As the t-shirt says, “You can’t scare me, I’ve got kids.”  But you *can* scare us about our kids, especially when it comes to their burgeoning sexuality.    Although over half of USA high-schoolers are virgins, the non-abstinent are having intercourse younger than ever before –age 15, on average—more often, with more partners, and are sans protection 1/3 to half the time.  So now, 2/3 of sexual diseases are diagnosed in the under-25 set , and US teens have 6x as many pregnancies as those in liberal Sweden (!). 

And early sex with many partners is a long-term intimacy risk, potentially undermining eventual marital stability by eroding the perception that sex and fidelity are a Big Deal.  To wit, in one study, among women who had sex at/before age15, 48% had affairs later…3x as many as those who were virgins ‘til 21.    

Fortunately, there is a prophylactic for this misery:  You and The Dad.  When parents Talk, kids typically not only wait longer to have sex—they have fewer partners, avoid high-risk behaviors, and use contraception. 

Here’s how to Talk Sex (and, of course, Listen, Listen, Listen):     

                      Talk Early:

The perfect time to begin is when your kids start asking…usually by age 4.   First questions are often direct and simple, ala “Why do I have a wee wee, and Sister doesn’t?”  or, “How did the baby get inside the mommy?”    

If age 6 has come and gone without questions, the time is Right Now.  The sooner you start, the easier it gets and the more impact you’ll have.  Plus, it lets you prepare them for things kids don’t know to ask about until after they’ve been scared witless—such as wet dreams, first ejaculation, and first menstruation. 

With young kids, you can say, “What do you know about where babies come from?”  Just asking the question, and answering it plainly and openly, will say you’re their go-to. 

With older kids, you can start, “Just like we talk about everything else, I’m here to answer your questions about sex.  What do you know about it already?  What do you want to know?”  If you’re uncomfortable, it might soothe your kid’s nerves (and yours) to acknowledge it:  “Nobody talked to me about sex, so I might be uncomfortable sometimes, just like this might be awkward for you.  But I want to listen and do my best to answer you.  What are your questions?”  And if there aren’t any, revisit it in a few days with a topic or two you’ve picked.    

                       Talk Often:

The most influential Talk extends from toddlerhood through early adulthood in a string of opportunity-inspired conversations.  Did your zoo outing reveal beastly behavior?  Talk.  Did your daughter witness your period?  Talk.  Did your son log on to Ho’sForHire?  Talk (and update your net nanny).    

                        Talk Values:

When it comes to your sexual values and expectations, You’re The Experts.  But if you don’t show ‘n tell, it’s hard for your kids to adopt your views—especially as peers and programming rush to fill the void.  “We expect you to wait until high school is finished before you have sex, no matter what anyone else is doing or how much you want to do it.  Let’s discuss why that’s so important,” is a conversation you can begin with your oldest child now.       

Research suggests a few specifics you might want to address.  For instance, kids whose parents stress personal responsibility for sexual and other behavior tend to avoid pregnancy and infection.  And parents need to keep an ongoing dialog about alcohol and school performance, too—more use of the former and less achievement with the latter are tied to everything that makes Daddies want to wield a cudgel. 

But it’s best to avoid guilt-mongering; your kids might wait, but if they don’t, science shows they probably won’t use protection, and guilt is not the best trip towards further communication.  Or healthy adult sexuality. 

Speaking of which, it’s important to acknowledge sex’s  emotional and positive aspects.   Someday, your kids are going to grow up and be Ready—and you’ll want them to cherish the lifetime bond that willing, joyful sex helps to create and continue. 

                       Talk Contraception:

If you’re like most American adults, you’d prefer that schools teach about contraceptives as disease-and-pregnancy prevention—and your kids’ school can’t, doesn’t, or won’t.  Even if you value abstinence as the only acceptable path, you can’t trust its being taught as you would prefer.  Bizarrely, some abstinence-only courses do not define abstinence—resulting, in one Love Scientist’s observation, in too many college students who are shocked when told that pulling out doesn’t qualify.    

Fortunately, though, you don’t need to wait for the school district to come around; your kids will (inwardly) thank you for talking Condom Sense.  And they will become less—not more—likely to abstain from the behavior that necessitates contraceptives to begin with.  To wit, almost 90% of middle-schoolers in a national survey said they’d feel better-able to wait and to prevent pregnancy if only their parents would teach them about contraception.  And no study has found increased promiscuity tied to contraceptive education in school districts or at home.  

So, The Mom, thank you for broadening our view of Relationships.  These discussions may be cringe-worthy to start, but they’re vital in sustaining some of the most intimate, loving connections we can have—those with our children, and theirs with their own eventual mates and kids.  Your kids have questions.  They’re lucky to have you and The Dad for answers.    

Cheers,

Duana

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All material copyrighted by Duana C. Welch, Ph.D. and Love Science Media, 2010

Do you have a question for Duana?  Contact her at Duana@LoveScienceMedia.com

The author wishes to acknowledge the following scientists and sources:

—Centers For Disease Control, 2005 Youth Risk Behavior Survey, for data regarding percentage of abstinent and active youth

—Brooke E. Wells & Jean M. Twenge, for data showing that the average age of first intercourse is now 15—three years sooner than at the peak of the Sexual Revolution

American Academy of Pediatrics, and Freya L. Sonenstein, for showing that teens are failing to use protection between 1/3 and half the time

—American Social Health Association, for data indicating that  2/3 of sexual diseases are diagnosed in persons under age 25 in the USA

—Jacqueline E. Darroch and others, for data on national differences in the pregnancy rates among teens in various Westernized nations

—Shirley Glass, for summarizing research showing the connection between early promiscuity and later infidelity for men and women

—Robert J. Levin and Amy Levin, for national research into infidelity rates among women with varying ages of sexual intercourse initiation 

 —Bonnie L. Halpern-Felsher; Sally T. Lehr;  and many others, for research showing that parental involvement in children’s sexual education helps kids not only wait longer to have sex, but encourages fewer partners, less risk-taking, and more contraception use

—Floyd L. Martinson, for data regarding when kids first ask questions about sex 

—Robert L. Crooks & Karla Baur, for their text cataloging the things kids need to know but won’t know to ask; for thoroughly reviewing the impact of parental and school sexual education of children; and for describing the ongoing nature of parent-child sex talks

—Susan Sprecher and others, for finding out whom young adults point to as their main influence on sexual matters

—D. J. Whitaker and others, for data showing that emphasis on personal responsibility is associated with risk avoidance

—David G. Myers, for summarizing research on the relationship between alcohol and unprotected teen sex, and guilt and unprotected teen intercourse

—Jonathan D. Klien, for describing how higher school performance is related to waiting longer for sexual intercourse

—Bill Albert, for a national survey on middle-schoolers that showed 87% wanted and valued parental sexual advice, particularly about contraception